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GENERAL DISCUSSIONS! => Health Matters & Life Style => Topic started by: SandyB on July 10, 2008, 10:50:37 PM

Title: Tik Monster
Post by: SandyB on July 10, 2008, 10:50:37 PM
 Read today on the front cover of a community  newspaper  a tragic story .. a family in Mitchels Plein  coming out about their son who is a " Tik Monster "  Now I have experience here .. I helped a friend through early stages of addiction to Tik .. and from my experience and my personal  deep belief .. drugs and especially  the newer  insidious  drugs such as Tik  are the devils gateway to erode  and destroy   decent  norms  of society  and get a hold ..  >>>>>>
Anyhow the family was giving their story of how their son escaped  from rehab  in PE  managed to get down to CT again  and now just lies around at home stealing off his family  to get his next fix , bullying them .. in fact they has the whole home in a grip of terrror ...
The general attitude of mother and kids is they ashamed to have him as a sibling .. but the fathers  plea left me gobsmacked .. he  said .. " my son needs a wife  she will bring him to his senses " what planet is this man living on ??? .. all that will happen is the problem will be  transfered .. he would . if any woman was so crazy or  into rescue complex  to get involved  never mind marry .. bully her strip her  of all possesions and her dignity ... Tik addicts have no conscience ,, their  normal pleasure receptors  are rewired by the drug to only accept the pleasure of Tik .. so nothing else matters .. beg " borrow ' steal  murder .. just to get the next hook up .. I'm still tryng to process the fathers convoluted thinking .???  he wears a tea towel on his head ??
Title: Re: Tik Monster
Post by: Diana Rudd (Boehme) on July 10, 2008, 11:47:26 PM
Truely a Monster,I have not had any contact with Tic addicts but know of a few heroin addicts. As Sandy says the logic of this guys parents baffles me,but then I suppose it's the only way they know how,(or rather how they think).
All I say is "There but by the grace of God go I". I thank God I've managed to bring up my children to this point without any major problems, and don't foresee that there should be any, but as they say never say never.
There's this strange guy (about 23) that sometimes wonders up and down infront of the shops on our circle,he doesn't say a word,doesn't ask for money just walks up and down looking at the ground all day. Everytime I see him I want to make it all better....his somebodies son.
Title: Re: Tik Monster
Post by: georg ruf jr. on July 11, 2008, 11:11:22 AM
Read today on the front cover of a community  newspaper  a tragic story .. a family in Mitchels Plein  coming out about their son who is a " Tik Monster "  Now I have experience here .. I helped a friend through early stages of addiction to Tik .. and from my experience and my personal  deep belief .. drugs and especially  the newer  insidious  drugs such as Tik  are the devils gateway to erode  and destroy   decent  norms  of society  and get a hold ..  >>>>>>
Anyhow the family was giving their story of how their son escaped  from rehab  in PE  managed to get down to CT again  and now just lies around at home stealing off his family  to get his next fix , bullying them .. in fact they has the whole home in a grip of terrror ...
The general attitude of mother and kids is they ashamed to have him as a sibling .. but the fathers  plea left me gobsmacked .. he  said .. " my son needs a wife  she will bring him to his senses " what planet is this man living on ??? .. all that will happen is the problem will be  transfered .. he would . if any woman was so crazy or  into rescue complex  to get involved  never mind marry .. bully her strip her  of all possesions and her dignity ... Tik addicts have no conscience ,, their  normal pleasure receptors  are rewired by the drug to only accept the pleasure of Tik .. so nothing else matters .. beg " borrow ' steal  murder .. just to get the next hook up .. I'm still tryng to process the fathers convoluted thinking .???  he wears a tea towel on his head ??

True words Sandy.
The problem is, the home in which the fellow got "sick" won't understand him That's normal. So the parents won't be helping. It only works if the family as a whole take advantage of help. But most important of all is, that the boy must see his wrong doing for himself. He has to make the decision of wanting to change something in life.
That's tough and works so seldom.
Title: Re: Tik Monster
Post by: SandyB on July 11, 2008, 03:17:11 PM
Too true  Jnr .. it  has to be the decision of the  addict to change things ..  like this  friend  told me ..  nothing else  could  give him pleasure  except Tik .. it had in  fact rewired him .. it took a  car accident to  get him on the  path to  wanting to change  .. and  that was  just early stages of addiction .. + - 2 months   from  having some socially ..  which although early  is  for  most too  late as theres no  way  back  unless   they accept   their  personal  responsibility  and  they  have the  resolve  to  change ..
Title: Re: Tik Monster
Post by: Bertie Horak on July 11, 2008, 04:36:24 PM
You wont believe how big the problem is.  My GP friend here in Kuilsriver does urine tests on kids regularly, and within minutes the result - TIK.  Young kids, average between 10-14 years.  The parents bring them in, because they are "not the same" as usual, or have sudden changes in attitude/behavior.  It's scary, very scary.  To think, it is permanent damage, especially the nervous system,  from the very first "fix".  Sad.
Title: Re: Tik Monster
Post by: SandyB on July 11, 2008, 09:42:25 PM
Diana .. my sentiment .. Its someones child .. and yes we wish we could make better ... Paul and i tried with one  young character  who has fallen off the edge of the world .. he used to come around selling lighters etc for money for the shelter ,, John took a soft spot for him .. and after Johns  passing we thought well lets try  and help him get a sense of self worth  and back  on his feet .. we treid to get him into the shelter reintegration  program , via their social  worker network .. I mean  what is an afrikaner boy from Worcester doing wandering the streets of CT ??  surely he got parents and family ?? ??  It seemed to work for a while  .then he dodged  counselling .. then he got a job .. but leaned on us ..  I offered for him to odd jobs around house .. just never seemd to be  able to pitch .. eventually we showed him the road .. told him  that unfortunately it appeared he was engineer and architect of his  situation and  ended up taking advantage of a friendly helping hand offered .. sadly so still see him  wandering  around  looking  tattier and tattier each time .. My strong suspicion is drugs ..onlys olace is  we  trie .. and yes our  consciences are clear .. we can with hindsight of experience say   .. go away Im not listening  to any stories ..
Title: Re: Tik Monster
Post by: Rhona on July 11, 2008, 09:50:42 PM
Sandy - what is TIK?
I have grasped that it is a drug of some sort or other - but are we talking heroin; cocaine; E-tabs........what?  idontknow
Title: Re: Tik Monster
Post by: Diana Rudd (Boehme) on July 11, 2008, 09:56:55 PM
@ Rhona    I'll leave Sandy to explain TIC to you.
The MONSTER has a firm strong hold on these people,. I do believe that initially they appreciate the help offered by the likes of Sandy and Paul and the intention is to  change their ways but sadly it is most often the MONSTER wins. 
Title: Re: Tik Monster
Post by: SandyB on July 11, 2008, 10:08:09 PM
Rhona .. Known as crystal meth .. called Tik is SA .. do a search using the name crystal meth .. its ravaged the cape flats destroying families  and the users ,, its highly addictive ..  do the search and read on  its awful  reading ..
Title: Re: Tik Monster
Post by: Rhona on July 11, 2008, 10:11:03 PM
Thanks Guys - I'm wide to the name 'Crystal Meth'..........  image14
Title: Re: Tik Monster
Post by: bobbysmith on July 12, 2008, 12:31:18 AM
ICE BABY ICE,,the evils of ice i can tell you about,ive dealt with phet heads,smack heads call them what you want,i would like to put my cards on the table and say this,they are dirty ,lo life scum bags,should in my opinion be sent away to an island for months if not years to cure the cravings for that shit.ive dealt with the two faced bastards long enough to know that no matter how much money the so called experts throw at the problem,it wont be solved until the supply is halted,border controlls and tough policing,f**k all this human rites issue,what about the human rites of the victims,they leave a trail of misery in their quest for a better high,get them away from decent folk,time will tell,retrabution will become an every day word,then how are leaders goimg to solve that one,with violence,if so,do it now,against the drug crazed minority
Title: Re: Tik Monster
Post by: Donald Duck on July 12, 2008, 06:32:58 AM
 Amy Winehouse Before and Now.....
Title: Re: Tik Monster
Post by: SandyB on July 12, 2008, 08:29:22 AM
The  skeletal picture pretty much sums up the effects ...
Title: Re: Tik Monster
Post by: SandyB on July 12, 2008, 09:38:05 AM
Agreed Bobby .. the island  therapy .. far away from the source and a long time of detox and abstinence appears to be the only answer for the majority of people who get hooked on these newer modified  hectically addictive drugs .. as for the lowlife part .. well a good majority of people that get hooked come from decent backgrounds and tragically so become lowlife once the drug takes hold , strips them of their humanity  and decency .. sadder so is the root cause is the drug culture that has emerged .. when we were teens  it was well yes maybe daring to dabble with drugs .. but socially acceptable ?/ Definitely no !! in this  age  one   goes to clubs or parties and there are people some openly snorting coke ( so glamorous ?? not so when it eats up the sinus's and your nose collapses ) others  disapearing to do their crack  or  meth or whatever .. all so "glamorous " .. and thats where a lot  of it goes wrong for some .. an innocent social hit on the drug and bang ! some are hooked  from the word  go ..
I recall an IT supplier of ours .. This guy was brilliant clever , and got his little company up and running  , provided  solutions and programs that served us well .. he was on the way  up ... then I started  noticing that something was not right ..  he became less reliable , did not keep appointments etc ..I still spoketo him one day  and asked .. whats wrong ?? " No everything  wonderful " ( its amazing how an addict can create a  new  reality )  I went to his home one sat morning to get an update disc .. home looked shabby ... wife distant ... 
A month or two later it all came out .. his one business partner had him booked into rehab .. his wife left him .. he came out of rehab .. looking ok .. but was never the same .. his hit ( crack cocaine ) had made a big hole  where his soul used to be , his creative spark destroyed , a shell of a human being just existing and going through the motions of living .. I could not  do business with him anymore .. I dont trust zombies ..
Even more scary  was the  so called " soft " drug  Ecstacy .. you walked into some clubs  or  so called " raves ' where use was rife .. as a non user you felt as though you were transported to  another planet and they were all alien life form .. they seemed to have this " chemical bond ' ...  For some their weekend was a chemical void .. start friday evening ... eat carefully .. then an hour or two before hitting the clubs .. take the  necessary .. so that they could  arrive   primed and ready .. party the night away .. then for the diehards  party well into the day ... evry now and again just topping up with another  magic E .. for some it was well into saturday night .. then home .. take the downers and knock yurself out  and wake up on sunday evening .. prepare for the week .. what a waste ??
 I recall on the news the one day .. this one rave party .. the organisers  even had a paramedic  tent set up ..  It was like the  comrades marathon of  drug taking ?? I mean they have  paramedic tents at the  Argus  ride .. the Comrades .. any major sporting event .. well the organisers had done the same .. like  as if to say  " Oh well its par for the course .. ?? Huh !!
Title: Re: Tik Monster
Post by: Delia on July 14, 2008, 08:34:02 AM
@ Diana - that youngster u mentioned walking around permanently head down looking at the ground - i think i know who u talking about - he wanders around table view, from one end to the other - if it's the same guy, i often see him up by us walking the streets and hanging around merlot square - about a year ago my sister and her friend got chatting to him at the petrol station, very sad story - basically he's lost everything in life, the saddest being his entire family as well thru some tragedy - they took him in, cleaned him up, bought him new clothes, fed him and even organised a job for him - they saw a spark in him which they tried to nurture to help him up and out of the streets - he pitched for the job for the first few days and then disappeared, never to be seen again..................who knows why someone would prefer to be on the streets than lift themselves up when given the opportunity. When he was at their place, i happened to go around one evening (didn't know he was there) - he's soft spoken, gentle and i saw that spark in his eyes for myself which they saw in him.........my heart goes out to those who just can't find that motivation and desire to pick themselves up...........i suppose it'll happen in it's own good timing, when he's ready. I didn't get the feeling there was drugs involved back then, maybe now, i don't know............just so sad..........as you said Diana "there but for the Grace of God go I"............
Title: Re: Tik Monster
Post by: Lance Olivier on July 14, 2008, 09:55:54 PM
Why is it that some people just seem to switch off from life? Agreed most probably that drugs/acohol or personal circumstances are the main reasons, but maybe there's something else. I have spoken to this one guy in my local on the odd occasion who is living on the streets. He is a very intelligent person (and very knowledgeable on music with a great singing voice to match), draughtsman by profession, but he sits in the pub all day getting drinks from people that know him. He has had job offers from people that would like to help him, but he seems to want to stay in the predicament that he is in. He was married and has kids who apparently are living overseas. Feel very sorry for him but he also refuses help. Have even spoken about inviting him to our family Xmas dinner, but he says he has his pride. Just my 5 cents worth.
Title: Re: Tik Monster
Post by: Dalene Steenkamp (Coetzee) on July 14, 2008, 10:04:38 PM
What should happen is that his friends in the bar should stop buying drinks for him!  They are not helping him at all.  If he has to pay for his own habbits, maybe then he will think again about getting a job.  Why should he bother to earn money, when someone else just keeps paying for his bad habbits (I think that's his motto)!  He says he has his pride  -  maybe his pride lies in the fact that he knows when he goes to your house for dinner or Christmas, he has to maybe wash the odd dish or two, and that is asked to much of him  -  like you are feeding him the crumbs from the table. 

Maybe I am to harsh on people like that  -      idontknow    -  but sometimes I get the feeling that they are the biggest spungers you get on the face of the earth.  Everyone else has to earn up for their proplems and feel sorry for them, but they never do anything about it themselves.  I mean, why does this specific person not go into a diner and wait for someone to buy him food  -  why does he have to go to the bar in order to get liquer?
Title: Re: Tik Monster
Post by: SandyB on July 14, 2008, 10:13:08 PM
Delia .. waht you have written about the spark in the eyes  reminds me so much of the Jonathan ... its sad but they just cannot seem to make it over that threshold .. In my own family we had almost a similar situation  .. my nephew CJ  . he was given the break year after matric .. well he went south .. my brother  lost it and after  one  year that became two years of " break' was about to push him out of the house .. This crisis caused major strain to the marriage and home ..  My Sis ( sister in law  San )  confided in me the whole time ..  the what to do etc .. then one day she walked past his room and he was talking to a friend ..  his  words were .. " i have put myself here .. i am now in a swamp and i feel as though I'm walking through mud .. I wish it could be different but the mud is holding me back "   on tihs  basis  he was given more time ..  well today .. he is married setteld .. making his own footsteps .. but it was a scary time for  them .. either choice could have had a good or  bad outcome ... but then again thats the risk of parenthood hey ??  where are the limits .. where are the  boundaries ?/   are we stifling ?/ are we  being too liberal ??  judgement calls at  each step of the  way ..
Title: Re: Tik Monster
Post by: Michael Alexander on July 14, 2008, 10:20:33 PM
@Lance..... give me the name of the local, so I know where to get some free beer!    BierSuip
Title: Re: Tik Monster
Post by: Lance Olivier on July 15, 2008, 10:01:34 PM
Maybe you guys got me wrong on this one. The said person in my previous mail, never begs or asks for drinks, but will just sit in a boozer all day, not necesarily the local but in other pubs in the area, in the "hope" of getting a dop, drinks water mostly or anything he doesn't have to pay for (OLD friends look after him; not only dop wise). People do not just buy this guy drinks higgledy piggledy as he doesn't sponge. He had a job, walked away from it, and doesn't seem to want to work, "lost the spark for work/life" (as mentioned he had a good job, is an intelligent man, no duck egg here). This for me is the main issue, as when does a person decide to give it all up. On one occasion when speaking to him the subject revolved around Matzos and he told me he loved the stuff, with butter and Marmite same as I like to eat it. Told my wife the story that night and the next day she went and bought a packet of Matzos, tub of butter and a bottle of Marmite for me to take to this guy. When I gave it to him he was so grateful. Anyone who is invited to our house is not expected to wash dishes nor eat crumbs from the table, it's an invitation "full stop". Nobody should be alone at Xmas time.
Title: Re: Tik Monster
Post by: SandyB on July 15, 2008, 10:27:30 PM
@ lance .. sentiments agreed .. difficult call .. whats most important is that we ask the why ?/ why do people fall of  the  edge of the regular world ??  and yes people with good hearts want to help .. its the how much  and what is appropriate ??
Title: Re: Tik Monster
Post by: Diana Rudd (Boehme) on July 15, 2008, 10:32:46 PM
One can only be helped, if one is willing to help ones self. All the help in the world leads to nothing if the person has lost the will.
Title: Re: Tik Monster
Post by: pam spackman on July 15, 2008, 10:34:15 PM
Hi there Lance, just read your posts, if this guy is not on drugs and he is not a drunk
p'raps he is overly depressed,and  should go to the dr s and get some treatment  and a course of

anti depressants..........just a thought          idontknow
Title: Re: Tik Monster
Post by: Rhona on July 15, 2008, 10:39:26 PM
Maybe he is happy with his lot - just because he doesn't conform to the norm doesn't mean he is a drop-out! The guy doesn't ask for anything but appreciates what is offered; he doesn't go out to work a 9 to 5, but then maybe he doesn't want to be part of the rat race and at the end of the day - he isn't hurting anyone by his actions, so why change a man that is happy...........

my 2 cent worth  cat1.gif
Title: Re: Tik Monster
Post by: pam spackman on July 15, 2008, 10:43:59 PM

That is if he is happy..............is he? who knows idontknow
Title: Re: Tik Monster
Post by: Lance Olivier on July 15, 2008, 11:28:57 PM
Sandy, Dianne, Rhona, Pam: Thanks for the comments; appreciated. Fully agree people are responsible for their own actions, decisions and whatever, after all this guy is two or three years older than me, not that age matters. Just a pity it's such a waste of talent.
Title: Re: Tik Monster
Post by: Clive Symes on July 26, 2008, 11:50:21 PM
Drug addiction is a disease, as parents we need to realise that we did not cause it, we cannot control it, and we cannot cure it.
By hiding the addicts actions and covering up their "lapses" making excuses for them we actively aid them in their addiction, its only when they themselves are forced into realizing there is a problem can anything be done about it.
They have to ask for help otherwise all we are doing in enabling them.

Like an alcholic, one's too many and 1000 is not enough.
Title: Re: Tik Monster
Post by: georg ruf jr. on August 12, 2008, 11:29:23 PM
Three things you need to sick to when it comes to addicts of any kind.
1) NEVER convict.
2) AID
3) You must realise an addict only has a real chance if he's learning to be responsable. Always a central subject in therapy.
Title: Re: Tik Monster
Post by: Clive Symes on August 13, 2008, 09:28:47 PM
Some addicts do make the transition, but some I know of, after using various drugs for 20 years years or more dont' seem to be able to make it.  A lot say with Gods help, little realizing God expects them to make the effort.
Some are forced into rehab by family and or go in to rehab for the wrong reasons. Once they leave they usually tend to revert back to the same lifestyle, sinking even lower.
Listening to family and friends of addicts relate their experiences, tends to put things into perspective. Addicts are usually self centered and unable to express their feelings except when on something, and Tik tends to turn this into aggression.
They all have similar traits, lying, stealing, cheating not able to keep commitments etc.
Only when an addict has sunk so low that he has neither family or friends that care any longer, and refuse to enable him or her  may they eventually come to realize that they needs to change. Often it is too late. As a parent one has to deceide for oneself how far you are prepared to let it go, we may not like the addict but we will always love the child we brought into this world. Addiction is a disease, just like any other.
It affects not only the addict but the family around the addict. Its only once we change our behavour that the addict may change his or her's and we need our own sanity in order to be ready to help once the addict decides to change ( if they ever do)

I know of someone whose parents would not even allow his clothes to ge dropped of at their house, because they know he will dissapoint them again and cannot entertain the hurt this entails.
A user since the age of 12 and now in his mid 30's his mind has changed, he is psycotic and I doubt that the changes are reversable. At this age he does not even own the clothes he wears, its a shame, because when he wants he can hold a job ( for a couple of weeks, and be good at it) until he has that first pay packet, then life goes into a quick spiral down as he can get the drugs he needs.
This time he has committed himself to a rehabcentre, hopefully for the right reasons and is prepared to work for the centre in order to be in a safe enviroment so that hopefully he can change.
I pray that he makes it, because his time and opporunitys are running out.
Title: Re: Tik Monster
Post by: SandyB on August 13, 2008, 09:33:18 PM
Well put together summation  of the  scenario  Clive ...
Title: Re: Tik Monster
Post by: barb (Fry) on August 13, 2008, 09:38:01 PM
Sandy as I was going to say,
OMG, so sad to see the wasted potential but as Amy Winehouses' mother says, Tough Love is the approach. 
Her dad obviously has a different approach, has he been successful, I don't think so.

My heart wrenches at the possibility of having to deal with this.

So far so good, here by the grace of god go I

Title: Re: Tik Monster
Post by: Clive Symes on August 13, 2008, 09:38:40 PM
Sandy,
Every Monday night sees me at a meeting, where we have a support group for family and friends of addicts. Its also good to see that there are those, that, with help are able to function again.
It seems once they are able to gain a sponsor or become one themselves they gain some self esteem and it does them good
Title: Re: Tik Monster
Post by: barb (Fry) on August 13, 2008, 09:42:32 PM
Clive, 
bravo.

So the support for family and friends extends eventually to the addict
fantastic.
Title: Re: Tik Monster
Post by: Clive Symes on August 13, 2008, 09:51:03 PM
It all revolves round the addict, because if they did not have the disease of addiction, we hope we wouldnt need to put ourselves back together again.
Nar Anon ( Narcotics Anonymous) and the associated family groups meet world wide and have similar style meetings in most citys.
Title: Re: Tik Monster
Post by: georg ruf jr. on August 14, 2008, 10:21:46 AM
THat's the aid I was meaning Clive. The support the people need is to let them know they're not alone and they're wanted.
Title: Re: Tik Monster
Post by: Bertie Horak on August 14, 2008, 10:48:04 AM
So right Georg.  Without a feeling of belonging and worth, it would be very difficult to change oneself for the better, the mind would not just make that decision without some kind of support.  The spiral downwards is much easier than the steps to the top!
Title: Re: Tik Monster
Post by: georg ruf jr. on August 14, 2008, 10:56:30 AM
Many helpers misunderstand what is meant with aid. They ofen end up "helping" the addict to be an addict. I must try and find the right English words and way of explaining. Been keeping this topic on mind for a long time now...
Title: Re: Tik Monster
Post by: Delia on August 14, 2008, 03:35:06 PM
Take it from someone who knows - there's no helping somebody who doesn't want to help themselves.  All you can do as a friend/family member is look after yourself so you don't get sucked into the vortex of destruction along with the addict. Those ties are so strong it takes all your focus to distance yourself from their destructive behaviour.

Clive - the meetings you go to - they're brilliant - really help the family understand a lot of crucial issues when it comes to dealing with an addict - the most important being what you mentioned earlier about understanding the three C's. When i first got to cape town in '95, NarAnon wasn't around in our area yet so i went to the Al Anon meetings for family members (works on  the same principles as NarAnon, 12 step programme, etc, after all an addiction's an addiction, whether it's drugs or alcohol) - my ex was way down that deep dark hole of addiction - i needed to bring the splintered pieces of myself back together to be able to be a wholesome mother to my daughter - i was going through divorce proceedings at the time - i wasn't prepared to live like that any longer and expose my daughter to that type of lifestyle - i'll never forget what one woman said to me - at the time she was about 50+ - she said "Delia, I wish i'd had your courage at your age to divorce my husband and start a new life for myself, he's still drinking after all these years, i've been coming here for 10 years + and nothing's changed, now i look back and see all the years i've wasted on him, years that i can never reclaim for myself"..........

I'll always be grateful for those meetings and the people there that helped and supported me thru a really tough time.  I  struggled tho' to accept the fact that they're happy to just carry on living with their husbands/wives who were addicts and just accept their behaviour - personally i couldn't do it. Different strokes for different folks.
Title: Re: Tik Monster
Post by: DUNJA WRBKA on August 14, 2008, 06:51:42 PM
 congrats  Good on you Delia!  dawoman 

Wish my mother had the courage to have done that much earlier too.  Too many years as a child having to watch the distructive behavour most certainly has had an impact on my life as an adult today.
Title: Re: Tik Monster
Post by: SandyB on August 14, 2008, 10:00:40 PM
Again  all well put together and empathetic  viewpoints also putting the emphasis on self preservation ... My hairdresser is a user .. his partner is a co-dependent . sure the " addiction" is "controlled "  vis he now off hard stuff now only doing dope  ( he got onto mandrax years ago  and then managed to get off ) .. but will  drink himself silly as part of the compensation  for his addictive personality ...  such a waste of  potential .. he a talented and creative person but has sold himself short ... furthermore he  has not yet " grown up ' despite heading for 40 .. I dread to think what he will do if Peter passes on .. and  that is a possibility as he is much older .. 70 in fact .. that I have discussed in earnest with him .. the other part well ..we all as  friends tried over the years .. the thank goodness  is he although not clean  at least has reached some sort of slow decrease in usage .. difficult i can imagine  and its not my place to judge ..
Title: Re: Tik Monster
Post by: Dalene Steenkamp (Coetzee) on August 14, 2008, 11:08:39 PM
Like you say, Delia  -  diffirent strokes......

My personal opinion about it is that it may be noble to stay with such an addict, maybe for the purpose of support or love  -  I truly don't know, but mostly the person who tries to stick it out gets dragged down emotionally to such a low level of self esteem and sometimes they even get to addicts themselves.  Some people may see it as being selfish to divorce or to walk out of a relationship or partnership where behaviour is destructive for one or all involved.  I think it takes courage.  Like you Delia, you got to a point where you realized that nothing good is going to come out of it for you or your kids or even for your ex, so you made the choise that was best for you.  And I am sure you do not regret that choise today. 
Title: Re: Tik Monster
Post by: Delia on August 15, 2008, 02:41:43 PM
Thank you Dunja for your kinds words - i thought i was going to get shot down by some with my viewsas i know it's a touchy subject. 

Dalene - yes, looking back i have no regrets about the choice i made back then.  because i didn't grow up in an "addict" household i never knew how bad it could actually get and one lives in continual hope that this is the last, it cannot get any worse until it does again and again and again..............  even after i divorced him i still thought "did i do the right thing, maybe he will change" - it was a risk i had to take - then again, we have to sometimes take these risks otherwise how do we ever move on in life - there are no guarantees in any area of life..........caryn was 13 months old when i left him and looking back now (we're all Einstein with hindsight), it was the best thing i ever did.......he's further down that dark hole than ever and i think to myself "where would i be if i didn't divorce him, down there with him?"  caryn's a happy, healthy, well adjusted teenager today and i dread to think what the effects would've been on her if i didn't get out of there when i did.  It's not as tho' i didn't try to help him - too long and involved to go into those details, but as you said Dalene, there comes a point where you just know that you're fighting a losing battle.  One can only try so much to help someone else, the rest is up to them. 

The self esteem issue - i remember when caryn and i arrived in cape town straight after leaving him, my sister-in-law said to me i was like a shell with all the life sucked out of me - so far removed from my normal confident happy self how they knew me.  Thank God over the years I have regained that sense of self and am back to who i was self esteem wise even tho' something like that does change your outlook to a certain degree - it leaves soul scars - but i chose to let the experience make me and not break me.  Addicts are devious and brilliant manipulators - you don't even know you're being manipulated by them until someone pulls you back from the situation to look at it objectively. All said and done, bottom line, my driving force to get out of there was caryn - she deserved more out of life than living in a dysfunctional addictive home with a continual black mood of the addict when he couldn't get his fix.  A friend once said something to me that i'll never forget which helped tremendously with the guilt issue of "breaking up our family", she said: "it's better to come from a broken home than live in one".

with my belief systems in life that in every encounter there's a lesson to be learnt - the lesson my ex taught me?  never to get involved again with anyone who shows the slightest dependancy on alcohol or drugs...........i'll run so fast, my feet won't touch ground.
Title: Re: Tik Monster
Post by: SandyB on August 15, 2008, 09:57:50 PM
Delia .. good  honest words . with any life situation .. yes we must ahve empathy and hope  or else  we may too early throw out something that was possibly  redeemable  but then also a good sense of self preservation  to not allow it to become a habit of co- dependency  and also not subscribe to the  societal baggage of guilt that  so many do  to the point of wandering where they went wrong whereas the responsibility of the situation lay with the dysfunctional one .. and No nobody on this site would judge or blow you out of the water for your openness .. you know in the depth of your heart that at least you tried till you saw no hope .. then you did the inevitable  with a good end result and thats all that matters ..
Title: Re: Tik Monster
Post by: Clive Symes on August 17, 2008, 06:34:04 PM
Delia,
If we are able to help only one person to be open about addiction ( what ever the drug/ drink etc of choice is) it starts a whole process acting, and and opens peoples eyes albeit slowly to the possibility of change.

From experience & friends, I now the decision to divorce or end a long term relationship, because of something like this, is so much more difficult once there are children in the relationship, a bit easier when there isn't, but not much.
Sometimes years later when looking back, you know it was the right thing to do.
Depending on the addict left behind, he or she may spiral right the way down or may eventually see themselves for the person they have become .
Some do realize that they do need to change and can with help reform their lives.
When that happens and they do become sober /drug free, we often see them taking up the banner to help and sponser other addicts, putting back into the organization their first hand knowlage.
and that is a tribute to them.
Unfortunatly not all of those who try to regain, sobriaty or free themselves from addiction make it, and that is the tragic nature of the disease of addiction
 
Title: Re: Tik Monster
Post by: georg ruf jr. on August 19, 2008, 12:05:07 PM
I think only about 20 to 30% of all adicts get cured.
Title: Re: Tik Monster
Post by: Paula Gottsch (Willson) on August 19, 2008, 01:21:00 PM
@ Delia

You did the right thing girl.   dawoman

Title: Re: Tik Monster
Post by: Clive Symes on August 20, 2008, 10:43:32 PM
There is no cure, only a total change in lifestyle and a will to abstain from using that keeps the addict sane. Beleive me when I say "these ex addicts can be strong in their will not to use" but have to take it a day at a time, Definitly not easy.
No wonder it is difficult to remain clean.

Just ask any smoker why they can't stop