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GENERAL DISCUSSIONS! => Anything Goes! => Topic started by: Michael Alexander on March 31, 2008, 01:12:30 PM

Title: Zimbabwe.....
Post by: Michael Alexander on March 31, 2008, 01:12:30 PM
Will Bob let go of power?

iknow
Title: Re: Zimbabwe.....
Post by: barb (Fry) on March 31, 2008, 01:15:47 PM
are the results out ?
Title: Re: Zimbabwe.....
Post by: Michael Alexander on March 31, 2008, 01:46:50 PM
Nope, the electoral commission is dragging their feet..... so far it's 12 VS 12 seats and 247 to go....
Title: Re: Zimbabwe.....
Post by: Susan Kintscher (Lineker) on March 31, 2008, 06:10:21 PM
they're only dragging their feet so that Uncle Bob can add another few hundred votes for himself.
Title: Re: Zimbabwe.....
Post by: Michael Alexander on March 31, 2008, 06:11:22 PM
There's gonna be kakka there 2morrow....

Title: Re: Zimbabwe.....
Post by: Dalene Steenkamp (Coetzee) on March 31, 2008, 06:53:21 PM
Anyone got latest updates on the results this far?  Didn't watch or listened to the news - still in office.....
Title: Re: Zimbabwe.....
Post by: Michael Alexander on April 01, 2008, 06:12:52 PM
Here we go.... enjoy the ride folks....

" Mugabe ready to go - sources
01/04/2008 20:01
Zimbabwean leader Robert Mugabe is ready to step down as president, sources say, but the army's chief of staff is blocking him.
"

source news24

Title: Re: Zimbabwe.....
Post by: SandyB on April 01, 2008, 06:17:06 PM
Words  from   a song  in the  movie  Evita  " Oh  what  a  circus, Oh  what  a  show "   maybe  Bob  should  embrace   words  from  another  song  in the  same  movie " another  suitcase  in  the  hall "
Title: Re: Zimbabwe.....
Post by: barb (Fry) on April 01, 2008, 06:56:06 PM
step down or coalition - ?
Title: Re: Zimbabwe.....
Post by: georg ruf jr. on April 01, 2008, 07:06:00 PM
 :emot111:  feedme  :cappello1:  :36_2_24:  notfair madashell
Give him an offer on sex with an hiv patient. I'll send him a bar of soap.
Title: Re: Zimbabwe.....
Post by: barb (Fry) on April 01, 2008, 07:40:00 PM
I thought beetroot was the cure ?
Title: Re: Zimbabwe.....
Post by: Diana Rudd (Boehme) on April 01, 2008, 08:45:55 PM
and onions, or shower straight after then you won't need the veg.
Title: Re: Zimbabwe.....
Post by: Uwe Leube on April 02, 2008, 10:35:10 AM
Quote of the week, "I cannot sleep at night with my conscience if I have cheated in an election" - Bob Mugabe. No wonder he has had those bags under his eyes the last 10 years
Title: Re: Zimbabwe.....
Post by: Diana Rudd (Boehme) on April 02, 2008, 11:51:04 AM
Heard a rumour to-day that Bob has left the country. True or not       idontknow
Title: Re: Zimbabwe.....
Post by: Michael Alexander on April 02, 2008, 11:54:03 AM
SKYNEWS now.... Morgan next President of Zimbabwe....
Title: Re: Zimbabwe.....
Post by: georg ruf jr. on April 02, 2008, 01:11:54 PM
Is this a reason to be happy?
Don't know the guy. Don't trust anybody. Who knows how the rest will react.
Title: Re: Zimbabwe.....
Post by: Diana Rudd (Boehme) on April 02, 2008, 01:13:34 PM
 idontknow   He has to be better than Bob.
Title: Re: Zimbabwe.....
Post by: georg ruf jr. on April 02, 2008, 01:16:32 PM
Why call him Bob. Sonds like he's your pal? Or is it an insult??
Title: Re: Zimbabwe.....
Post by: Michael Alexander on April 02, 2008, 01:19:02 PM
Morgan is a corrupt politician..... I know... trust me I know.......

iknow
Title: Re: Zimbabwe.....
Post by: Diana Rudd (Boehme) on April 02, 2008, 01:23:22 PM
I call him Bob because I can.
I don't doubt that Michael will be interesting to see what transpires.
Title: Re: Zimbabwe.....
Post by: SandyB on April 02, 2008, 01:28:35 PM
@ Jnr ...  his  name  in  the  newspapers  is  Mad  Bob ..  so  yes  we  can  call  him  Bob ...  but he aint no  Pal  of  ours ...

I  still liked  the   fictitious   nickname  give  to  Thabo  Mbeki  when  his  inaction  on  mad  Bob  was  questioned .. he  was  then  called  Thabob Mugabeki   . interesting  put  together hey  ??
Title: Re: Zimbabwe.....
Post by: SandyB on April 02, 2008, 01:33:00 PM
Yes  Mike  all  or  most  politicians  are  corrupt  ...   but  poor  old  Zim  needed  some  or  other  form  of  change  ..  now  we  just  hold  our  breath  , wait  and  see ..........
Title: Re: Zimbabwe.....
Post by: Cherry (Alcock) on April 02, 2008, 02:05:18 PM
Just finished reading an interesting travelogue by a guy called Sihle Khumalo (Dark Continent - My Black Arse) who travelled from Cape to Cairo by public transport - says ...

I could not help but to struggle to understand how so-called liberators had turned to dictators, ended up as being president for life, became heads of one party states, allowed countries entrusted to them deteriorate so much; neglect their people and ignore their plight so completely.  Makes you think. 

He also said that although the Boers had treated black people like dogs, they built an infrastructure and economy in such a way that there is nothing else in Africa to compare with SA.  He goes on to say that although he is sad to admit it, if it were not for the Boers, SA would not have it's strong economy and world-class infrasructure (excluding Eskom - my comment) much as they used Black labour to do it.
Title: Re: Zimbabwe.....
Post by: Michael Alexander on April 02, 2008, 02:38:31 PM
OK...Politics now.... many will not like this..... so you can all take your turn to shout at me... APARTHEID was wrong...but it was neccessary!

How can you say that?  Well my own opinion is.... I never liked apartheid, however if it had not been put there...South Africa would not be there today...Azania would be there...and we would be as chaotic as an African cocktail with the Combo of Nigeria and Algeria....... and my fellow white Africans , still living here, would have been born in the UK...

just my 2 cents....
Title: Re: Zimbabwe.....
Post by: SandyB on April 02, 2008, 02:50:45 PM
And as  Ms De Lille  was  politely  told   by  a  fellow politician  of  lighter  shade .. , if  it  was  not for  our  presence  here  you would   have  been  picking   picking  mussels  off  the  rocks  at low  tide   for  breakfast  this  morning ..
UPSIDE
The  spinoffs  from  the old regime  as  it is  so  fondly  called  are yes  a wonderful  infrastructure  etc  etc   even  privelege  ..that I  am  proud  to  say  a  lot  did  their  utmost  to make  the  most of .. working  hard   contributing  making  it  grow ..    a  prosperous    country ..

DOWNSIDE
The  repression  of apartheid  was  wrong .. it   embraced  the  concept  that  one  people  were  more  superior  to  the  other , almost  relegating  the one  grouping  to  sub-human , and  it  was  entrenched in  law  ..
There  is  so  called  reverse  racism and  apartheid  under  new  guises  now  and  it is  affecting  lighter  skinned  peoples lives  now ... 
I   can  say I  object  strenously  to   past  and present  concept ..   WRONG  WRONG  WRONG ..
Title: Re: Zimbabwe.....
Post by: georg ruf jr. on April 02, 2008, 03:27:16 PM
Apardheid is as far as I remember the Afrikaans word for segregation. What happened/happens in SA is not segregation, it's (past and present) people believing themselves the better race. I'm sure everybody knows what killing and devestation went on in the 60s till 80s. Black people were systematically held down to make sure the never have a chance of being on the same height eye in eye with whites.
I think it's compareble with the way women were dependent on men in centuries before. Men believe it was right, because the believed women were not capeble of being in charge or voting ect.
It's a matter of conciousness and awereness whether things are possible or not.
No where in history has segregation ever  been dokumented as a solution for society. It causes stagnation, hate, fear ect.
And yet. As I've said before. The only constant is change. It's being on our way somewhere and learning/developping things with each other. Dialectic?? hope it's spellt right.
What his happening in Africa is a kind of a boomerang effect. The mix of old culture, old wounds (apartheit, coloniesum ect) greed ect. It's what we all expected after apartheit.
This doesn't meen you have to except things. One should see oneself as part of the dialectic and take a role in being actice in the changes.
I know it's easy for me from Europe. I know to, that this is theory. I know it's your reality that scares the sh*t out of your lives.
Sandy i tried. Hope you guys got what I meant.
Title: Re: Zimbabwe.....
Post by: Richard Opperman on April 02, 2008, 04:32:03 PM
History is there to be learnt from - the good and especially the bad!!

Mankind has still not learnt from history and always put their own class and egos above his fellow man.

In our country the English after the 2nd Boer War took all the top positions (a few splatters of Afrikaans) in Government till 1948.

Nats did not learn from the English mistakes and repeated (all their Afrikaans boeties got top positions) and introduced even worse policies and plenty brain washing of its folk - something like Adolf and the boys in World War 2 - if you were against them you were branded a commie - who can forget al the "swart gevaar bullshit" and Nazis riding around intimidating the people at the election posts on election day (police doing nothing) and at 1994 elections Nats at one election post not wanting to count extra new ballot papers (another story)-they only changed because the writing was on the wall and the world was turning against them.

ANC also repeating the bad part of history by appointing their boeties to top positions and when questioned about being corrupt - throw the racist card. Be accountable and learn by history - do not repeat the bad!!

When will mankind ever learn - quote - "Love your brother as yourself and do unto others as you would them do unto you!! - unquote.
Title: Re: Zimbabwe.....
Post by: georg ruf jr. on April 02, 2008, 05:29:51 PM
Thanks Richard.
There's just this one thing I'll never understand about the boers. They call themselves Christians and hold the bible high. When it comes to Christ word "Love your brother..." they believe they're a higher race. We had all that bullshit in Europe which lead to Nazi-Deutschland ending in WW2 and causing the death of probably about 100.000.000 people.
Title: Re: Zimbabwe.....
Post by: SandyB on April 02, 2008, 08:06:25 PM
Well put  Richard ..  we  see too much of history repeating itself , we must  learn by past mistakes , imprint it in our minds and in the minds of the  youth as well ... I also get angry ,, the thought goes through my mind  that at times  that  Africa is ripe for recolonisation just to get a sense of  order  again , this timeround however  it must be done differently , but  then who are we to dictate to people who  seem hellbent on  destroying what is built up each time ?? I can relate to Mikes feelings but will not  let them poison me .. its so damn difficult  at times to keep a balanced view ,, for me the saving grace is  the little voice  that saysto me all the time " do no harm "  which comes to the  starting point of " think no harm "  cos  thats  where it  all starts ...
Title: Re: Zimbabwe.....
Post by: Michael Alexander on April 02, 2008, 09:01:47 PM
Well Put Richard...   :emot112_2:  But how can so few change the ways of so many?

Title: Re: Zimbabwe.....
Post by: SandyB on April 02, 2008, 09:11:06 PM
Whats important is  to  never  waver from what  you  believe ,,, for me its the picture of many chipping  away at the rock that is the obstacle ,, doing your best to initiate change in your direct sphere of influence  and never give up ,cos  thats the problem ,  if we give up  thats where the rot sets in ... , ,, the  new  agers refer to  it  as the power of the collective  thought ..  talk  wherever  possible , give balanced  viewpoint  stand out in the crowd , again easier said than done  but persevere ..........
Title: Re: Zimbabwe.....
Post by: Michael Hardman on April 03, 2008, 12:18:57 PM
Well said Sandy, what could very well happen if he does not step down and a coup happens, the West will intervene and Bob and his Generals could find themselves in the Hague for crimes committed against Humanity. So my advise to Bob is go and shut up and keep quite.
Mike
Title: Re: Zimbabwe.....
Post by: georg ruf jr. on April 03, 2008, 12:31:34 PM
I don't think anybody will intervene. zimbabwe has nothing of interest. This is not Iraque.
Title: Re: Zimbabwe.....
Post by: Michael Alexander on April 03, 2008, 12:44:54 PM
.... now if they had oil............
Title: Re: Zimbabwe.....
Post by: barb (Fry) on April 03, 2008, 12:48:25 PM
Nigeria has oil, doesn't seem to help them ?????
Title: Re: Zimbabwe.....
Post by: georg ruf jr. on April 03, 2008, 12:56:15 PM
i suppose Iraque is of strategic interest. Iran, cuwait, middle east, former SU, Pakistan and so on
Title: Re: Zimbabwe.....
Post by: Michael Alexander on April 03, 2008, 01:45:24 PM
Nigeria also has the most populated country in Africa, with over 220 different ethnic groups..... You'd be crazy to invade there...
Title: Re: Zimbabwe.....
Post by: georg ruf jr. on April 03, 2008, 02:01:59 PM
America raids countries if buiseness runs against them. I don't know what's happening there, but I suppose they're earning enough...
Think of South and Central American countries. They'd 8USA) support any dictator as long as buiseness suited them well.
Title: Re: Zimbabwe.....
Post by: David John Long on April 03, 2008, 04:03:31 PM
Thought I would have a browse on the internet to get a better, more in depth look at the "new" guy... this is the link to the MDC website. http://www.mdc.co.zw/ If you think about it, in a country where 80% of the people are unemployed and there is 100000% inflation, how many people are actually going to be able to visit the site.  idontknow Personally I think it is a very well developed, informative and impressive site. They got my vote  numberone

P.S. I am still trying to find the ZANU-PF site.  :36_2_24:
Title: Re: Zimbabwe.....
Post by: Michael Alexander on April 04, 2008, 07:06:36 AM
Try....  www.corrupt.com.zw


:emot19:
Title: Re: Zimbabwe.....
Post by: Michael Alexander on April 04, 2008, 07:08:29 AM
...... and so it begins....

"Harare - Intruders ransacked offices of the main opposition party and police detained foreign journalists in an ominous sign that President Robert Mugabe might turn to intimidation and violence in trying to stave off an electoral threat to his 28-year rule."

Source: News24

yesno

thumper
Title: Re: Zimbabwe.....
Post by: Keith Margetts on April 05, 2008, 06:28:22 AM
Hey Oppie,

Quite the diplomat my friend . . .

Quote I was told on my visit to Zimbabwe in October 2006 = "Rob Mugabe" on the front of your T-shirt, with "Before he Robs You!!" on the back of the T-shirt . . . !!!

My goodness and mighty $#!t . . . 100,000% inflation??

Glad to be Canadian,
Keith.
Title: Re: Zimbabwe.....
Post by: Michael Alexander on April 05, 2008, 06:29:26 AM
it's now 115 000 %..yesterday
Title: Re: Zimbabwe.....
Post by: georg ruf jr. on April 05, 2008, 08:08:29 AM
Quote from: Keith Margetts on April 05, 2008, 06:28:22 AM
Hey Oppie,

Quite the diplomat my friend . . .

Quote I was told on my visit to Zimbabwe in October 2006 = "Rob Mugabe" on the front of your T-shirt, with "Before he Robs You!!" on the back of the T-shirt . . . !!!

My goodness and mighty $#!t . . . 100,000% inflation??

Glad to be Canadian,
Keith.

bling1
Title: Re: Zimbabwe.....
Post by: Richard Opperman on April 05, 2008, 01:53:28 PM
Welcome back Keith!

Thanks it really pisses me off when people tramp and cheet on others - always been a supporter of the under dog!

Was called a commie by a lady at SAA who Debby worked with in the 80s because I read the Cape Times (anti Nat newspaper - banned a few times by the Nats - who can forget "the finger" P W Botha the Nat leader) every morning on the train - she though because my surname was Afrikaans (not it is German) I should read the Burger and Vote Nat - bullshit!!

Uncle Bob Mugabe is a cheet, criminal and ego maniac and should go - how can the world allow this destruction to go on!!

Typical of West as long as it is not happening in their back yard they turn their backs and pretend that nothing is happening - maybe only when Bob starts killing people openly will something happen -Rwanda and the Balkans are examples of the West ignoring the pleading for help by the people of those regions.

Wake up West and do something about Bob - sanctions are not working - only hurting the man in the street!

Uncle Bob and his cronies have cooked their goose for not going out quietly - the people will sort him out or is it as the Afrikaans saying goes - "Onkruit vergaan nie" (Weeds never die).

Enough said!

Richard

Title: Re: Zimbabwe.....
Post by: SandyB on April 05, 2008, 01:56:14 PM
 bravo
Title: Re: Zimbabwe.....
Post by: Cherry (Alcock) on April 05, 2008, 03:24:26 PM
So much for Mbeki's quite diplomacy - hasn't workwd nor does it help when an idiot like Aziz Pahad slams the media for criticising the fact that the presidential election stas haven't been released - moron!
Title: Re: Zimbabwe.....
Post by: georg ruf jr. on April 06, 2008, 02:06:30 PM
You're directly affested by the going ons Richard. At least seen from Europe. So I understand your oppinion.
What should the west do? Interfeering in forign countries meens you're interfeering. Whom will you really be helping? You'll have critisism in your country, because you have (obvious in a democracy) so many different oppinions:
1. Everybody should stick his nose into his own buiseness.
2. We have enough problems ourselves.
3. Who takes over the costs?
4. The guys never learn even if we help....
Then the contraversa  in the country your supposed to be "helping". Afghanistan, Iraque, Isreal and Palastine ect...
No matter what the man on the street says (west) decisions are always made by the bigheads. And these decisions are made to make sure the own interests are being satisfied. oil,uranium, gold ect   stratigic situation ect
I believe, we have to see everything as a whole. We are all responsable. My high standerd of living has something to do with poverty, war etc in the third world. But what would realy help? Bombs? Another Korea, Vietnam, Iraque .....
What's your idea Richard?
Title: Re: Zimbabwe.....
Post by: Richard Opperman on April 07, 2008, 02:48:47 PM
We are nt directly affected - but this does not mean we should keep quiet - more voices bring change!!

Zimbabwe is not a democracy - the country is run by a politburo which is a communist system!

My argument is this that the West must put a lot more pressure on mad Bod and his henchmen than they are doing at present. Restrict his movements even more - let him suffer like his people are - ban all Zimbabwean aircraft from flying North and landing in the West - not happening at the moment.

South Africa is not innocent when it comes to putting pressure on mad Bob and his cronies. Our quiet diplomacy is not working! As Cherry mentioned above our idiotic vice foreign minister Aziz Pahad has now gone and done a nutter by saying the media is over reacting - he says that Zimbabwe has a logistical problem getting the ballot papers to the ZEC - I wonder what would have happened if mad Bob had won? It looks as though mad Bob has had a logistical problem for the last 28 years!

Yes the west must get involved in other peoples business if their are human lives at risk!
You cannot put a cost to a human life!

I agree, do not get involved with militarily might - it never works and countries who think they can still control a foreign country with a military still have not learnt by history - but put extreme pressure on mad Bob and his cronies and hurt them where it hurts most in their pockets!

Say no more.
Richard 
Title: Re: Zimbabwe.....
Post by: georg ruf jr. on April 07, 2008, 03:35:08 PM
I was looking foward to your reply Richard.
Now your opinion is clearer to me. I was worried you were thinking of millitary "aid". What still irritates me is the expectation toward the "west". That's what I meant with "you are directly affected". I don't mean you as a person. It's Zimbabwes surroundings... SA is part of it.
These guys call themselves communists. Doesn't communism have something to do with community. This is a form of capitilism we had in Europe when all countries still had kings. Everything has been given new names.
I'm prepared to learn Richard. I'm greatfull for all the information and opininon I can get from all of you.
Georg
Title: Re: Zimbabwe.....
Post by: SandyB on April 07, 2008, 06:21:13 PM
Well put Richard , of  the same  opinion .. America made that mistake with their " liberation" of Iraq, sure they got rid  of  an  evil  despot but  there  are  so  many factions and religious  zealots  around that  they  just  take  advantage of  the  situation  when  the  repression  is  gone  and  scramble  for  their  piece of the power , its indeed  sad .... and  here in SA we  have   the  comedy of  our  wise leader  Thabob Mugabeki ( i'm sure  he  actually  shit  scared of  uncle Bob ) saying  just  leave  it  we cannot  interfere ( yet  they  pleaded  to  the  world to  interefere  against  the previous  regime ) .. NO! the more  voices   and the more  action  taken  of  a  different kind re Richards posting  can  help  amke  the  difference .. Injustice  is  injustice   and what  mad Bob has  done  is  on  par  with  apartheid regimes  excess ....
again  the  words .. " Oh  what a  circus "
Title: Re: Zimbabwe.....
Post by: georg ruf jr. on April 07, 2008, 06:59:21 PM

To See sometimes requires that you believe

Is that new Sandy. Hadn't noticed it yet. Isn't that dangerous?
Isn't Bob wanting everybody to believe to they can "see"?
Title: Re: Zimbabwe.....
Post by: SandyB on April 07, 2008, 07:16:47 PM
@ Jnr .. it  depends what you  wnat  to  see  , truth or  untruth , to  question .. but  also  to  believe .. it  has  served  me  well in  my  lifespan .. Its  actually part  of  a  saying   that  was  " seeing  is  believing  but  sometimes  to  see  requires  that  you  believe ' nothing  dangerous  unless  one  is  a brain  dead moron .. How  do  you think  major  inventions  came to  the  fore ?  how  good  thinking  people  have  helped  shape  history .. they  believed  and  were in  ways  unstoppable ...
Anyhow  i  been  having  a  bit of  fun  .. that song  from   The  stage  show  turned  movie   Evita  ' Oh  what  a  circus " has  been  rattling  around  in  my  head and  I  decided to  change words of  so  far  the  first  two  verses  to  fit in  with  the  music  and  keeping  some of  the  phrases  intact  I  supply  the  edited  zimbabwe  version  in  blue  and the  original in  black   best  to  first  listen  to  the  music and  then  sing  the  song  .. Have  fun all !!  My  bit  of  mischief  for  the  day ............

Oh what a circus, oh what a show
Zimbabwe  has gone to town
To  vote  out  a despot called  mad Uncle  Bob
Worlds  gone all crazy
allowing  things  to  drag  on so  long
and  so  failing  to  put  all of the misery right

Oh what an exit, that  he  should  have
Shackled  and  shamed  and  chased like  a  dog
Instead he  demands  another  recount
It's quite a messup
No good for the country in so  many ways
moving  to  the  back  page of all the world's papers today

The original
Oh what a circus, oh what a show
Argentina has gone to town
Over the death of an actress called Eva Peron
We've all gone crazy
Mourning all day and mourning all night
Falling over ourselves to get all of the misery right

Oh what an exit, that's how to go
When they're ringing your curtain down
Demand to be buried like Eva Peron
It's quite a sunset
And good for the country in a roundabout way
We've made the front page of all the world's papers today
Title: Re: Zimbabwe.....
Post by: georg ruf jr. on April 07, 2008, 07:28:59 PM
I'm sure I understood the way you meant it. I was just wondering how things could be misunderstood.
Title: Re: Zimbabwe.....
Post by: SandyB on April 07, 2008, 07:36:15 PM
Things misunderstood ? easy .. if  one  does not  step back , put oneself in  the other  persons shoes , go  into  ones  heart , question  do my thoughts or actions have the potential to hurt or cause damage ??  Oh damm its all so  difficult at times , and yes the world is so full of what is right and wrong , I just try to keep to  the simple tenet again of  try to  think  no  harm and  try  to do no  harm  .. also have  fun  and  do not  be oversenstive cos if  you  dont the worries of  the  universe will surely  swamp  you ..
But  I  remain  with  the  believe in  yourself  and to  see  sometimes require that  you  believe ...
Title: Re: Zimbabwe.....
Post by: georg ruf jr. on April 08, 2008, 03:08:33 AM
There is something I ofen experience at work. We are a team of 5 qualified teachers/trainers specialised on working in a psychiatry. Now we all seem to have the same educational background, as we all had to pass the same exams. If we discus things concerning our concept it's so hard getting a point of agreement. Everybody uses the same words and language and we seem to mean different things.
So if people wih the same educational backgroundcan't find a point of agreement (of course we do a some point, just an eg.) how shall people over nations and different cultures, languages do so?
Sounds very pesimistic. But I'm just trying to be realistic about the way things go on in the world.
You once mentioned (think it was the text of a song) that things start of in my person. Then goes over my relationships, family ect.
Title: Re: Zimbabwe.....
Post by: SandyB on April 08, 2008, 05:00:10 AM
That is what  makes  life  interesting ...  Imagine all  having  exactly the same viewpoint ??   Boooring ...
Title: Re: Zimbabwe.....
Post by: georg ruf jr. on April 08, 2008, 05:47:33 AM
I was refering to our topic further up.
Title: Re: Zimbabwe.....
Post by: Dalene Steenkamp (Coetzee) on April 08, 2008, 07:00:26 AM
Facts are facts - positives, negatives - live by example, word your inner feelings, voice the feelings of the masses, critisize the negatives, inspirate the positive -  this can go on forever

fact is still - the heeldogs of Mugabe has yet again bit, by instigation of their master, into the flesh of the white farmers who are still there.  Reversed racisim due to what was done to Rhodesians more than 30 years ago?  I cannot believe that  -  the atrosities bieng commited by Mogabe currently outweighs the wrongs of the past by far.  This is pure hate spired on by the lust for power.

Should a new government come to rule, is it going to be better?  We don't know - but I have a gut feeling that each and every leader is only seeking the support of the masses for his own purpose and not for patriotic reason or for interest of the people.  The only thing they aim to get is rich!  And this counts for every leader of every country around the world!  Politics is the biggest get rich the nasty, but easy way scheme you can find (and second to that is the religion thing  -  Jimmy Swaggart etc, but that's another topic).
Title: Re: Zimbabwe.....
Post by: georg ruf jr. on April 08, 2008, 09:41:06 AM
Your question is, will it get better. No, it can't.
Every nation gets the government it deserves. Things are alwyyxs in a process. The point at which Zimbabwians are is far away from getting a better government.
So I'm coming back to what I was writing before. It's not just a matter of the others (west) doing something. If the people directly involved don't change their attitude, nothing will change.
SA is a good exsample it seems. You talk of reversed rasicm. Is it realy reversed? If whites were in a better position in timesb of apardheit doesn't meen blacks weren't racists. The only thing that has reversed is the position. Whites may have lived racism different to the way blacks do now, but that's not the point.
So everybody is in this process.
We had/have the same thing here with Jews, Gipseys, Jehowa Wittnesses, Gay.... You name it. That's our process. Learning to understand how to accept things that are different to mine. In the end we see everybody is only ....
"Waiting For The Sun" Jim Morrison.
Title: Re: Zimbabwe.....
Post by: SandyB on April 08, 2008, 10:37:30 AM
Actually  it  appears  that the  people  of  Zim   have  indeed  by  their  vote  indicated  that  they  are no  longer  prepared  to  accept  Bob   and  his  antics  and  yes    Bobs  successor  is  an unknown  quantity   they dont  know  what they  going  to  get  but  then  they  have to  take  that gamble ...   also  dont  forget  they  were  very repressed   and  lived  in  fear   so  the step  they  have  taken  is indeed  courageous ...   as  for  the  reverse  racism  etc  I reserve  comment    excepting  to  say  that  lessons  should  be learned  from  the  mistakes  of the  past  and  it  appears it  is  not  happening  so .. 
Title: Re: Zimbabwe.....
Post by: georg ruf jr. on April 08, 2008, 10:49:21 AM
Is giving a vote all you need for the right attitude in life? It may be something to start with, like having an idea...
Title: Re: Zimbabwe.....
Post by: SandyB on April 08, 2008, 11:12:36 AM
 A  Vote  an  indication  of  the right  attitude .??   .. it  forms  part  of  it ..  its  a  sign  that  one at least  holds  some  hope  in  their  soul .. that  they  have  not  had  their  spirit  totally  crushed  .. that they  have  woken  out  of  their  apathy  and  are  deciding  to  do something ...  I  would  not  like to  be in  the  shoes  of the  average  zimbabwean .. every  day  most of your  physical  and  mental  energy   taken  up  by  the  scrabble  to  survive .. methinks  you  analysing   this  subject  too much  here ..  one  can  look at  it  from  so  many  angles  and  actually  get  nowhere ..
Title: Re: Zimbabwe.....
Post by: georg ruf jr. on April 08, 2008, 01:09:40 PM
What happens in Z is just an eg on how to go about things Sandy.
I've experiaced so many times when Germans vote, that they do not vote because of their belief or anything of the kind. They vote because their partner does the same, or just do the opocite??? of what they believe in ect Then if you have a party getting for eg 40%, but only 66% of the population goes voting ---> This party actualy only gets 30% of the population. So many things have to be seen...
Title: Re: Zimbabwe.....
Post by: SandyB on April 08, 2008, 01:48:15 PM
Oh dear  you  getting  troubled  by  this  one ..  yes  voting  is  indeed  a  not  entirely  perfect  system  but  its  the  closest  at  present .. yes  if people  dont  take  their  vote  seriously or  do  not  go  to  vote  then yes  it  does  skew  things  the  wrong  way ...   as you  mention  60 %  becomes  30 %  etc
I  am  a firm  believer in  having  a  good  opposition   to  ruling party  by  numbers ..    it  is  necessary  to  avoid  what  happened  previously ..  one or  two  people  against  many  in  the private  club of  pariament ..  so  when  it  comes  to  voting  I  will  do so  strategically .. looking  for  the  strongest  bet  as opposition  (  might not   be entirely  to  my  satisfaction  but it satisfies  the  need  for  opposition )   or  if i see  that  an alliance  will  be formed  then  I  will   be  at liberty to  vote  for the  party that  meets  requirements  of   my  heart  and  strategy..
I  remember  My  Mom  and  Stepfather   ,,  a  few  years  ago  when  the  western  cape  was  the  " rebel "  province  and  belonged  to  the  official opposition  alliance .. They  were both  staunch  ANC  supporters   but  were so  happy  to  see  this  strong opposition   .. to  them it represented a  good sign  of  democracy ...
Also years  ago  the  one  very  conservative  Afrikaner  party  disliked  the  Nats so  much  that  they  rather  voted  for  the  official  opposition  which  was the PFP  then   even  though  it  went  against their beliefs ..
Remember  another  thing  ..  the  old  story of  , your  father  was  a  blacksmith  so  therefore  you  became one  or  your  father voted  for  labour party  therefore  you  did it  automatically   without  question  is  on  its  way  out ..  the new  generations  have  CHOICE  more  so  than  their  predecessors   and  will hopefully  excecise  this  option of  choice wisely ..   
That is  unless  you  have  devised  some   other  perfect  system ?  If  not  then  just try  to  do  your best    within  the  imperfect  perfection  we  have ..
Title: Re: Zimbabwe.....
Post by: Richard Opperman on April 08, 2008, 02:29:55 PM
Well said there Sandy - be yourself when voting - not because my father voted for x therefore I vote for x.
Title: Re: Zimbabwe.....
Post by: Richard Opperman on April 08, 2008, 02:31:46 PM
Looks like this story is now going the l...o..n...g way round?
Title: Re: Zimbabwe.....
Post by: georg ruf jr. on April 09, 2008, 05:55:39 AM
I'd like to come back to the point about discussing things with my colleagues.
The problem is not the different opinions. Different opinions make discussions rich. It's using the same words and meaning something different. That's why I refered to trained people, who are sopposed to be speaking the same language.
If a christian and a buhdist talk about god, then they mean god. Even if the have different opinions in what god is. That may be enriching. But what happens if a buhdist talks about praising god, and the christian thinks his praising a golden idol.
So it's a matter of listen properly and finding out about what people are meaning when they say something. And it's a matter of finding out if what I say is true and being ready to change my opinion when it's not.
So all of this is a process. A very difficult process. Something everybody goes through every day in his life. And it's realy hard.
So how can we expect changes on a national basis  happening by vote. It's only a signmal. And everybody involved still has so much to learn in his own process.
I hope this doesn't sound arrogant. I'm not trying to say I know how Africas problems can be solved. I'm just trying to understand why it's so hard for any of us to get to the ideals we have.
I know that's a big jump now. But I'm running out of time and I wanted to get back to where we came from.
Looking foward to reading more.
Title: Re: Zimbabwe.....
Post by: SandyB on April 09, 2008, 08:14:05 AM
Firstly  I try  not  to  over intellectualise  what  is  happening  your  brain  might explode   ..   I  take  the  view that  there are  things  that  are    directly  within your   sphere  of control  and  things  that  are not  directly  within your   sphere of  control ...   Those  that  are  within  my control I  do  my  utmost  to  exert influence  and  shape .. those   that  are  not directly  I  also  do  whatever  is  within  my  capability , and  try to  learn  and  accept  the  outcome   because  no  matter  what  my  input  there  are   the  variables as  you  have  mentioned ..    the  Human  factor  .. there  is  no perfect  system  and  we  ahve  to  try learn  to live  with  that .. down  to  people  saying  the  same  words  but meaning  something  different ...   actually  I  find  that  I  run out  of  thoughts on  this  one   and  end  it  with   saying " learn  to  accept  the imperfect  perfection  that  we  are"
Title: Re: Zimbabwe.....
Post by: Carl Wrbka on April 19, 2008, 06:17:12 AM
Why Mugabe was banned from Survivor Zimbabwe...

Title: Re: Zimbabwe.....
Post by: georg ruf jr. on April 19, 2008, 09:43:16 AM
No! Who says he has to go. No, no!
Title: Re: Zimbabwe.....
Post by: Richard Opperman on April 21, 2008, 03:26:00 PM
On a lighter note!

There is a new Barbi doll available on the market, called ZimBabi - comes with no clothes,money or food.
Has a cow called "Moogabe"  bling1 
Title: Re: Zimbabwe.....
Post by: Dalene Steenkamp (Coetzee) on April 21, 2008, 06:08:30 PM
What's the diffirence between Mugabe and a loosing rugby team?

.....


.....


.....


Mugabe can organize a win.                   yesno 
Title: Re: Zimbabwe.....
Post by: georg ruf jr. on April 22, 2008, 03:44:39 AM
 bling1
Title: Re: Zimbabwe.....
Post by: Alfred Boehme on April 24, 2008, 04:39:48 AM
Did'nt Mugabe win the re-count by one vote? quickdop madashell :emot78: :36_2_24:
Title: Re: Zimbabwe.....
Post by: georg ruf jr. on April 24, 2008, 05:21:17 AM
The MDC was initially declared to have taken 109 seats against 97 for ZANU-PF in the 210-seat chamber, but Mr Mugabe's party will regain its majority if it can reverse the results in seven or more of the seats under review.

The recount also covers votes cast in a simultaneous presidential election in which Mr Mugabe is seeking a sixth term in office. None of the results from the presidential election have so far been announced.

News.com

Title: Re: Zimbabwe.....
Post by: Carl Wrbka on April 24, 2008, 06:35:54 AM
Sounds like the famous Bush / Gore fiasco a few years ago...
Title: Re: Zimbabwe.....
Post by: georg ruf jr. on April 24, 2008, 06:40:43 AM
Do you think the two of them are in Z. in disguise.
Title: Re: Zimbabwe.....
Post by: Diana Rudd (Boehme) on April 24, 2008, 01:20:03 PM
Probably with Zorro slashing ZZZZZZZZ's all over the place.
Title: Re: Zimbabwe.....
Post by: Carl Wrbka on April 27, 2008, 05:55:09 AM
Latest news just in, MDC retains majority seats in parliament after recount. Bye bye Bob.
Title: Re: Zimbabwe.....
Post by: SandyB on April 27, 2008, 07:45:00 AM
Will  delusional  Bob  get  the  message ??  Maybe  our  wise  leader  Thabob Mugabeki  will  have  to  give  him asulym  here  so  that  we  will  have  to  foot the  bill  for  him  through our  taxes ?? at  least  he's  an  easier  target  here  without  a whole  army  protecting  him ...
Title: Re: Zimbabwe.....
Post by: Carl Wrbka on April 27, 2008, 07:48:04 AM
 :36_2_35:  According to News 24, the British PM mentioned something about military action if Bob doesn't leave peacefully.
Title: Re: Zimbabwe.....
Post by: SandyB on April 27, 2008, 08:04:40 AM
One  more  on  Bob  .. this is wisdom  or  viewpoint from  the  mouth  of  a  young  adult  13yrs old  .. My  one  colleague was  doing  the  school  taxi  run  so 4  kids  in car  and  chatting one  child  asks " with  all  this  bad  feeling  being  beamed  at  him   from  all  over  the  world  why  has  Bob  not  had  a  heart   attack  and  died ? " her  daughter   replied "  he  cannot  die .. because he  is  so  evil  so  he  cannot go  to  heaven  but  the  worst  is  he  is so  evil  that  not  even  the  devil  wants  him " 

the  perfect  recipe  for  immortality ??
Title: Re: Zimbabwe.....
Post by: georg ruf jr. on April 27, 2008, 09:25:26 AM
 bravo
Title: Re: Zimbabwe.....
Post by: Michael Alexander on May 03, 2008, 07:06:51 AM
I actually enjoy listening to Bob talk, not what he's saying, but that colonial English that he uses..the upper stuff....it's like a black comedy.....

Anyone else enjoy watching the Coconuts?

Title: Re: Zimbabwe.....
Post by: DUNJA WRBKA on May 03, 2008, 12:35:45 PM
 :emot19:

I don't religiously watch it because it clashes with another program that I watch but have seen it a few times.  I so enjoy watching the role reversal... hehehe
Title: Re: Zimbabwe.....
Post by: Carl Wrbka on May 03, 2008, 02:54:03 PM
Hey Duns, if you had watched it religiously, you would have noticed that it ended quite a while ago...lol.  I'm surprised you were still awake at that time of day. Normally u'r watching the inside of u'r eyelids at that time... yougogirl laughpoint
Title: Re: Zimbabwe.....
Post by: DUNJA WRBKA on May 03, 2008, 06:12:45 PM
 e154   I love you tooo Carl!!!!   arse
Title: Re: Zimbabwe.....
Post by: Carl Wrbka on May 06, 2008, 10:34:18 AM
One of our local radio stations decided to play a phone prank on Uncle Bob. It went better than expected...lol
Title: Re: Zimbabwe.....
Post by: Diana Rudd (Boehme) on May 28, 2008, 01:31:37 PM
Our friend Vernon speaking  Bobs language.
Title: Re: Zimbabwe.....
Post by: georg ruf jr. on May 28, 2008, 01:32:56 PM
The last I heard was, uncle Bob is staying. Is that true??
Title: Re: Zimbabwe.....
Post by: Carl Wrbka on May 28, 2008, 01:35:36 PM
Dunno. Last I heard, he's now dying of cancer? Either way, he's going.
Title: Re: Zimbabwe.....
Post by: Lance Olivier on June 06, 2008, 08:03:09 PM
He'll have to be forced out somehow (politically of course). As far as I'm concerned he won't relinquish power Mike. President for life remember. As for Mbeki's quiet diplomacy, I believe Bob's wife is related to Mbeki somehow, obviously got to keep quiet. But then again I've never been able to understand how Mbeki can walk upright without a backbone. Surely he should be swaying and flopping all over the place. I heard something on Kfm today, 1 o'clock news, and Morgand Tsvangerai said that all rallies leading up to the 'run off" elections had been banned. Didn't catch the full story. Very, very sad for such a beautiful country to go to the doldrums.
Title: Re: Zimbabwe.....
Post by: Chris Macpherson on June 06, 2008, 08:43:23 PM
hey lance, we export beer to zim , i wonder how much a can costs there.......4000000 per can perhaps.
Title: Re: Zimbabwe.....
Post by: SandyB on June 22, 2008, 01:03:13 PM
Read in the Sunday Times ..  mad Bob says  " Only God will remove me !!"  and then I see a newsflash on box .. apperntly a MDC insider says Morgan Tsangvirai  will anounce his withdrawal form the run up ..  If so such awful news ..
Now If we the  western world  WASP  BASP and Catholic alike were to take the stance of our   dishcloth wearing counterparts  from the  oil rich countries .. and  declare his  statement  ,, especially using  the name of God  by a man  as Evil as him as blasphemy we could also declare  a " Holy war "   and make him a  marked man ??  maybe the  fundamentalists of the American deep south could join in the fray ?/ they pretty radical aint they ??
I am a person who refrains from wishing bad on someone cos i believe in the  divine wheel of retribution  .. but  tonight i am going to light a candle in solidarity of those poor souls in  Zim that might have to suffer again  under his despotic rule ... and yes pray for something to happen , somehow   divine  intervention has to happen ..  he has to be   taken away  .. even if the  Dveil does not want him as he regards him as  stiff  competition  in  being evil ..
The only hope is  also  some   his neighbours  and other  african  counterparts ( excepting  good old Sa  and  wise  leader Thabob Mugabeki )  are now  breaking ranks  and  saying  he  is  out  of  line .. ABOUT  DAMMN TIME !!  pity  almost too late ...  Oh how I hate bad news  but then thats the  gamble  of living .. we take the  bad with the good hey ?/
Title: Re: Zimbabwe.....
Post by: Michael Alexander on June 22, 2008, 06:28:16 PM
I'm afraid, we are gonna have to wait till Mad Bob hits a natural death... thats the only way that bastard will be dethroned....... I think he is 85 now anyhow..... and all those youth mobs on the rampage should have war crimes against them...
Title: Re: Zimbabwe.....
Post by: Alfred Boehme on June 23, 2008, 05:03:08 AM
Morgan Tsangvirai has withdraw on the news this morning 
Title: Re: Zimbabwe.....
Post by: Skinny on June 23, 2008, 07:59:40 AM
Word on the street is that there is a US$25million price tag on Bobs head. Now that would be worth taking him out for. Maybe after watching last nights movie,on MNET surely some one, somewhere, could do it? SAS, Navy Seals, KOEVOET, 32 Battalion I dont know but some one surely can do some thing. After all he killed thousands and is responsible for bringing down a beautiful country. I am surprised that the International Courts just let this type of thing happen. Surely they can go and arrest him for war crimes? Maybe they have no back bone either?
Title: Re: Zimbabwe.....
Post by: Bertie Horak on June 23, 2008, 09:39:02 AM
I dont know what we as normal citizens of the neighboring country can do.  Well, our government certainly havn't got the guts or backbone to stand up for the suffering people next door.  It feels like we are just watching while our neighbor is slapping his kids to death!
image20
Title: Re: Zimbabwe.....
Post by: SandyB on June 23, 2008, 10:43:01 AM
quote skinny ..  Word on the street is that there is a US$25million price tag on Bobs head  Ok   folks  pass around the hat and lets  increase the bounty  .. every  hard earned ZAR  or  N$  will  help ..
In the  meantime  .. how  many of  you  are  going to do the same as  me .. light a  candle every night and  pray  for  something  good to happen ,  to  affect some  change  .. to relieve  those  poor  people of  that  murderous  despot .. ??   there  is  power  in that ..
Title: Re: Zimbabwe.....
Post by: Tamara Hogan on June 23, 2008, 11:24:06 AM
Some one needs to make a fuss about an oil well discovered deep in the depths of Zim. Selouki seems a good spot. The oil is right next to a gold deposit! Some one let the USA know. They will have uncle Bob in no time!
Title: Re: Zimbabwe.....
Post by: Skinny on June 23, 2008, 11:42:44 AM
The Yanks will first have to find ZIm on the Globe before they will even look at it. They only learn about a country in geography when they go to war! It is amazing though if there really was oil there they would be there like white mussels are in Henties bay. Maybe we should email Gearge bush and tell him that Vic falls has turned into beef jerky and that will get them there!!!! Or even better Tell Barack Obama that we found his long lost relatives living in poverty in Harare and they are starving. That might work.
Title: Re: Zimbabwe.....
Post by: Tamara Hogan on June 23, 2008, 11:44:23 AM
Maybe, just maybe....
Title: Re: Zimbabwe.....
Post by: Carl Wrbka on June 23, 2008, 01:13:04 PM
Latest reports are saying that Morgan Tsangvirai as a person may withdraw from the elections, but the MDC as a political party must continue to contest the election. Maybe theres hope still.
Title: Re: Zimbabwe.....
Post by: Carl Wrbka on June 23, 2008, 03:00:33 PM
 iknow
Title: Re: Zimbabwe.....
Post by: Bertie Horak on June 23, 2008, 04:45:25 PM
The latest news is that Morgan Tsvangirai has sought refuge in the Dutch Embassy in Harare, and has been there since Sunday.  If he had to flee to feel safe, what about his supporters?   notfair
Title: Re: Zimbabwe.....
Post by: Michael Alexander on June 23, 2008, 06:50:13 PM
In think he should have stayed the course and not bailed out, because now he and his supporters have nothing...... and now the witchhunt will begin.....
Title: Re: Zimbabwe.....
Post by: SandyB on June 23, 2008, 08:41:55 PM
Pass the hat around  to increase Bobs bounty .. and dont forget  all of you light a candle and pray and wish for something good to happen  that will change things ..
Title: Re: Zimbabwe.....
Post by: SandyB on June 25, 2008, 07:57:27 PM
More news .. MDC people given refuge in SA embassy in Zim .. they were being chased by ' riot police " gates opened and they let in ..  the  heady aura surrounding mad bob the " great liberator " seems to be slowly wearing off the , perfume  of  ' african brotherhood " turning into  the smell of corpses and flies buzzing around .. the SADC waking  up and now  saying  'hey  out of order '  SA finally critiscising him in the UN Nogal !!..  of course saying   they must still as a " sovereign state "find the solution for their issues .. thats to try save  face for  all the  egg that is going rotten on  their faces from total inaction  ..  ..  keep on passing the hat around  to increase the bounty  .. the bigger the bounty .. the more  scared he will become .. when scared he will either become more dangerous , or  decide to take the high road .. we all hopefor the high road ..
I actually laugh at the tactics they using there .. i remember the days in SA of the  Rooi gevaar ,  die  Roomse gevaar .. die  swart gevaar  and if  you dared to think different  yu  were a kommunis (communist )  their only  gevaar they have to use in Zim is to say that this  is  a  plot by Britain to recolonise ..quote " We will not  allow  Britain through a silent war of  subterfuge to recolonise Zimbabwe "    big words  .. but  recognise the same  fear tactics ???    My Gawd  how on earth do they get a starving nation to still attend rallies and  wave  flags and cheer a  madman .. or do the general populace ahve rocks in their heads .. or are they just plain shit scared ??  anyhow i keep on lighting the candle every night say my prayer .. ihope what I'm seeing is the chipping at the rock .. or  draw another parralell .. the berlin wall was up the one  day  and  all of a sudden it was being broken down ??   folks do as i do pray and hope for the  movements we see  and some " sensibility " to escalate and turn into something good .. ..
Title: Re: Zimbabwe.....
Post by: bobbysmith on June 25, 2008, 09:24:48 PM
SHOOT THE MOTHER f**kER
Title: Re: Zimbabwe.....
Post by: georg ruf jr. on June 26, 2008, 05:47:47 AM
If you shoot the mf, the next one will come. What's it gonna help? Revenge brings NO acceptable  solutions.
Title: Re: Zimbabwe.....
Post by: Tamara Hogan on June 26, 2008, 06:08:32 AM
its not revenge if the wrong doing is not done to you. Is It?
Title: Re: Zimbabwe.....
Post by: georg ruf jr. on June 26, 2008, 06:14:38 AM
Hi Tamara. I've posted on this subject several times. I always wanted to know how the situation would change or get better if you shoot Bob. Nobody gave me an answer. I also asked what one should do to secure societies future. No answer. All I read about is revenge and killing.
Where are the REAL solutions.
Society doesn't work if killing goes on. Not matter from which side the killing comes or goes to. No matter what the person/s have done who get killed.
History proves this!
Title: Re: Zimbabwe.....
Post by: Tamara Hogan on June 26, 2008, 06:20:39 AM
Totally agree George.
Just thought revenge was only revenge if you or your family were the ones being hurt, other wise I thought it was murder.


Any way... Maybe no answer is given because no one has one.
It is hard to see these horrors play out. It seems that the kind of people who do this do not listen to deplomatic solutions, deals, ect or even reason, so socioty gets fed up.

I would love to have the answer but do not and as you are asking, I guess you do not neither. These things are horific, and the fact we let him stay in power it beyound me. But I dont know how to get him out short of shooting.
Title: Re: Zimbabwe.....
Post by: Paul (Pepe) Freemantle on June 26, 2008, 06:30:38 AM
"BOB" must go. He has turned into a dictator just like Idi Amin. he wants to hold onto power so as to keep on enritching himself while his people starve to death. War and violence has never resolved anything, just brings destruction to humanity and years to rebuild. 
Title: Re: Zimbabwe.....
Post by: Tamara Hogan on June 26, 2008, 06:38:24 AM
I guess people think that if BOB were dead or otherwise out of the way, he would not be able to influence his supporters and some sort of peace would insue.
However , just look at Sadam. He is long "gone and trouble still brews, though his people do have a lot more liberties they did not have back then. So not 100% good but better.
Title: Re: Zimbabwe.....
Post by: georg ruf jr. on June 26, 2008, 06:40:11 AM
Tamara and Pepe: True words.
Obviously no one has "the" solution. I like speaking about being on our way to a s. The opposition in Zim. was doing a good job. But now they've stzopped their camagne. Why? Because of the killing??? but the killing goes on no matter what they do.
What I'm trying to say is, that only if the citizins of Zim. "change" onkly then will their  situation change.
Some say the west must help. What can the west do if the people do not learn to change things themselves????
Title: Re: Zimbabwe.....
Post by: Paul (Pepe) Freemantle on June 26, 2008, 07:09:10 AM
I agree Jnr, people have to change. It is part of their custom and tradition that this is the way as they know no better. They need to be educated and understand what democracy is really. This is not democracy but sheer greed of power which is unfortunately part of the African culture. So bad yet so sad.
Title: Re: Zimbabwe.....
Post by: georg ruf jr. on June 26, 2008, 07:20:39 AM
Greed is within us all. But it's a matter of the circumstances what face greed (or anything else) becomes.
Culture helps us to "calm  the demons" within us.
When culures mix at a certain stage of developement, you get what you have in Africa.
No time to write more. Might come back.
Title: Re: Zimbabwe.....
Post by: Dalene Steenkamp (Coetzee) on June 26, 2008, 07:34:07 AM
To put it in short the way I see it:

Mugabe rules by bush law still  -  the main bull or ram or whatever it is fights for his territory till death, sometimes kills off the offspring of rivals to keep his domain or still stake his claim.

I am not calling Mugabe and animal  -  although I want to, 'cos he acts like one in comparisson to other .... 
Title: Re: Zimbabwe.....
Post by: Delia on June 26, 2008, 08:14:21 AM
what amazes me is how the rest of the world is just sitting back watching it all happen............is it 'cos it's black on black and not white on black......................
idontknow
Title: Re: Zimbabwe.....
Post by: Gordon Brown on June 26, 2008, 08:49:49 AM
What might help is to have a universal constitution applicable to all countries in the world which is unchangeable; one which limits Heads of States' tenure to ten years only.With regard to Mad Bob's crimes, he should be brought before the International Criminal Court and tried for crimes against humanity as was Milosovich and as is Charles Taylor at present.This might yet happen.Zimbabweans deserve better governance and freedom from oppression.
Title: Re: Zimbabwe.....
Post by: Dalene Steenkamp (Coetzee) on June 26, 2008, 09:03:26 AM
I fully agree with you, Gordon.  Yet I don't think that it will happen - not soon or during our livetimes.  My big question is:  why has no one until now laid a charge against him at the ICC?  Everyone knows what is going on, but no head of state from any country in the world, or the ICC themselves has made an effort to charge him.  What is in Zimbabwe that we don't know about, that holds the rest of the wold back from intervening?  SA intervenes in Ruanda by sending troops there to try keep the peace and stop the genecide -  why not Zimbabwe?  Is it not genecide that is happening in Zim as well.

I got so many questions and theories about this.  Carl Wrbka's reference to the Illuminate etc ......  not going to elaborate on that  -  everyone can read it if they want to.
Title: Re: Zimbabwe.....
Post by: georg ruf jr. on June 26, 2008, 09:20:49 AM
Hard to say Delia.
I remember many discusions I had with people in the 80s who wanbted free elections in all African countries. Most people tended to believe black people are better. Nicer. More human.
I always warned them, a free Africa means war between the tribes ect....
Now it seems, that many do not want to talk about this anymore. Why???
Title: Re: Zimbabwe.....
Post by: Delia on June 26, 2008, 10:49:43 AM
How sad too that Mugabe was once one of the most respected leaders in the world............with all that's happened to poor old Zim, must've been a long long time ago..........adds a bit of weight to what you say George jnr. 

Between him and his wife who's so busy shopping us a storm it's enough to make one's head spin, they've succeeded in crippling which could've been one of the jewels of Africa. 

I lived in n Botswana for a year 1994/1995 and what a pleasure to see what can work - so peaceful, mellow, no shit, well run. Now that's a country Mugabe could learn from if he wasn't on such a power trip...........
Title: Re: Zimbabwe.....
Post by: georg ruf jr. on June 26, 2008, 10:52:39 AM
That's true Delia. We respected and trusted Mugabe. I didn't here from/about him in years, until I heard Zim. was going down the drain...
Title: Re: Zimbabwe.....
Post by: Cheryl Quantrill (van Greunen) on June 26, 2008, 12:57:31 PM
The rest of the world just sits and watches Zim because they have nothing of an economic value to the big palyers - no oil, gold, diamonds or an industry critical to their (the big players) own wealth and prosperity.  Africa above the borders of SA is a big hole of "needs" and nothing to give.
Title: Re: Zimbabwe.....
Post by: georg ruf jr. on June 26, 2008, 01:19:09 PM
In a way it's true Cheryl. If we take a closer look, we see several countries with oil ect and simular politics as Bobs. As long as the governments behave toward the west, there's no intefering. The west governments try to keep activities secret and don't want us spitting in their soup. (that was German again lol)
Title: Re: Zimbabwe.....
Post by: Delia on June 26, 2008, 01:59:08 PM
Right on Cheryl, i think you've hit the nail on the head..........
Title: Re: Zimbabwe.....
Post by: Michael Alexander on June 30, 2008, 02:48:21 PM
and the saga go's on... why on earth would a white farmer still be living in ZIm?

from News24 today

"White Zim farmers attacked
30/06/2008 15:41  - (SA) 

Harare - White farmers who had protested the seizure of their land were beaten and burned by Robert Mugabe's supporters the same day he was sworn in as Zimbabwe's president after an internationally derided election, said a union official on Monday.

The Zimbabwean Election Commission declared Mugabe the winner of Zimbabwe's widely condemned presidential election. His opponent, independent election observers, human rights groups and foreign governments all said Friday's one-man presidential run-off was neither free nor fair.

Three farmers and one farm manager were brutally beaten in Mashonaland West, a stronghold of Mugabe's Zanu-PF party, said Deon Theron, vice-president of the Commercial Farmers Union.

Most members of his union were white farmers. Three of those attacked on Sunday had appealed to a regional body and been granted temporary permission to stay on their farms, Theron said.

'It's very, very tense in Zim'

One couple and their son-in-law were attacked on their farm on Sunday afternoon and then forced into a truck by a mob, Theron said. They were kept there until being thrown out of the truck after midnight, and were later taken to hospital with head wounds, burns and broken bones.

A farm manager nearby was attacked by another mob earlier in the day and was in the hospital with serious injuries, Theron said. A third farm was also raided, but nobody was harmed.

"It's very, very tense at the moment," Theron said. "I think now with the president being sworn back in, they (Zanu-PF supporters) now think they have total immunity again."

Mugabe claimed the farm seizures that began in 2002 were to give land back to poor blacks, but many of the farms went to his Zanu-PF cronies. The seizures were blamed for the collapse of Zimbabwe's key agriculture sector, leading to a broader economic crisis.

Mugabe 'not a legitimate leader'

In a report released on Monday as Mugabe attended an African Union summit in Egypt, AU observers said "the fear of violence deterred popular participation in the electoral process" and noted that the opposition was denied equal access to the media.

Zimbabwean opposition leader Morgan Tsvangirai, who dropped out of the run-off because of government-sponsored violence against his supporters, said Mugabe should have no place at the AU summit.

Tsvangirai said: "Robert Mugabe is not the legitimate leader of Zimbabwe. He is usurping the power of the people. He has brutalised his own people.

"The crisis that he has caused in this country is now the responsibility of the AU and Southern African Development Community (SADC)."

Election observers from the SADC said Friday's vote did not express the will of the Zimbabwean people. Its report said the run-off election took place under "unprecedented levels of violence and political intolerance, followed by extreme statements from the country's principal political figures". "
Title: Re: Zimbabwe.....
Post by: SandyB on June 30, 2008, 06:45:15 PM
Just reading and seeing what has unfolded makes me sick to the core .. worse still is that he was welocmed into the AU meeting in egypt .. he should have been hounded out as the  low down dog that he is ..  a mentality i do not understand ..   and his continued rule will have dire consequences for southern africa at large ..  I duck out of this one for fear of saying  something and wishing  something  really bad ...
Title: Re: Zimbabwe.....
Post by: Tamara Hogan on July 01, 2008, 03:14:56 AM
I agree with you sandy- its like he is an evil super man- bulits just bounce off him!

No one can stop him

It makes me sick to the core too.
Title: Re: Zimbabwe.....
Post by: SandyB on July 01, 2008, 07:44:10 PM
Lots of activity at AU in Egypt .. Bob being harrassed by press .. maybe he loses it and really shows his horns ,, then pisses of the Illuminati , and they take him out ..  more and more of his neighbours are slowly turning on him .. hope the tide keeps on moving in that direction .. Maybe he gets a real miffy fit and bursts a blood vessel .. who knows .. I light candle again each night and pray for something good to happen that will take  his blot off the  picture ..
Title: Re: Zimbabwe.....
Post by: georg ruf jr. on July 01, 2008, 07:47:52 PM
So things are in the move, where they should be in the move...
Title: Re: Zimbabwe.....
Post by: Richard Opperman on July 25, 2008, 02:59:39 PM
As the afrikaans saying goes, "Onkruit vergaan nie" or "Weeds never die" only the good die young!

All we need to do is go back into "Uncle" Bob's history to understand why he is such a megalomaniac.
He is an only child (not that that has got anything to do with it) who had sand kicked in his face most of his life and walked around with a big chip on his shoulders. Something like Adolf Hitler - amazing the similarity.

He was not supposed to have been the first president of Zim - he had the right full leader killed while still in the bush.
Uncle Bob was the man of the moment in the 80s, with everybody wanting to visit him in Zim, but his jealousy of Madiba our man turned him into a bitter old man and he had to look at other ways of getting attention.

His day will come and my personal feeling is this - his own people will sort him out - if not he will have his day at The Hague. Do not forget, like all of us he is also going to meet his maker and then nothing counts!

So be it!
Title: Re: Zimbabwe.....
Post by: Michael Alexander on July 25, 2008, 04:12:03 PM
I don't think he will have his day.... I think he will die peacefully in his sleep.... and a great bloody big statue will be put up in the middle of Harare in his honour... Any of you lot know/knew of Wrex Tarr? I was just downloading some of his stuff from Youtube.... Nostalgic humour....

202  affe-red
Title: Re: Zimbabwe.....
Post by: Donald Duck on July 25, 2008, 04:17:54 PM
They met at last:

Title: Re: Zimbabwe.....
Post by: SandyB on August 01, 2008, 07:02:12 PM
We  wish !!! ... if I was a world leader I would ...
Title: Re: Zimbabwe.....
Post by: Sean on August 02, 2008, 07:06:32 PM
Brilliant!!  How's about this - it looks genuine considering it's Z$1,2 trillion to the pound (seriously!).

Title: Re: Zimbabwe.....
Post by: Michael Alexander on August 02, 2008, 07:25:28 PM
That is incredible.... I believe on Friday they just chopped off a whole pile of the Zero's in their currency.....
Title: Re: Zimbabwe.....
Post by: SandyB on August 02, 2008, 08:33:54 PM
They ahd to .. theres no computer that can handle such huge amounts .. also the banknote would be too short if it carried on .. what to do ??  keep on printing the 0000 's around the back ??   such a f... joke ...
Title: Re: Zimbabwe.....
Post by: Carl Wrbka on August 10, 2008, 05:24:04 AM
Next thing you know will be that they only print one side of their banknotes like in Germany during WW2.
Title: Re: Zimbabwe.....
Post by: Lance Olivier on August 11, 2008, 07:17:05 PM
Wow!!! Wrex Tarr certainly brings back memories. There was a guy at boarding school in Windhoek who lived in Zambia and he had an audio cassette of one of Wrex's shows from the 60's or 70's (Rhodesian comedian/musician if I'm not mistaken). I would compare Wrex to SA's Pip Friedman in a way. We used to listen to the cassette over and over. It would be great to hear it again as we were too young to recognise any political undertones in the songs and stories if their were any at all.