As I was scanning through various folders, I found one marked, Police Case, it was dated July 1961..... and here are the three photo's from that folder, can anyone guess who or what?
Was this not the mother that drowned - I think - her kids in the bath???
Gus
Hi Gus, I thinkyou are right they had a girl (3)and a boy (2)then the mother cut her wrists.
Thats the same story Bobby was talking about the other day. They lived in inner or outer cresent. The mother did not die and was arrested. The girl still got away and ran up the passage and the mother went after her.
I remember this case.
My sisiter Cathy was a friend of the little girl and she had gone with us to the beach that day which was a Sunday afternoon.
The girl must have been 5 or 6 and the little boy two or younger. They lived in 6th avenue just up the road from us.
We lived in E11/6 a corner house and they were on the other corner 5 houses up.
The last I know was that the mother was still in Falkenberg Cape Town.
I remember the incident. Gus is right, they were murdered in the bathroom. Put into a bath filled with hot water if I can remember.
WHere was the father ?
at work.
On a Sunday? Was she just loopy? Was she ever tried in court? How was the community's reaction? Are the kids buried in the local Graveyard? ... more questions than answers...
@ Mike, the father was a shift worker and was not at home at that time if I can remember. Gus, myself and a few others (Castles) still went to the mortuary to see if we could see the kids. The kids are buried in the local graveyard. I can not recall the names or surnames of these people unfortunately. The community was stunned as you never heard about murders in OMD those days, all was cool calm and collective LOL.
I've also asked my mom the name but she doesn't remember either. Richard doesn't Cathy remember?
Just heard from a local ( you know who u are), the two kids are buried in the local Graveyard here. The mother was suffering from post natal, she cried out for help, but not many people recognised the signs back in those days, she drowned the kids, dried them off and put them back into bed.........
this is really a sad moment in our little towns history and I was told that the whole town felt this loss back then....
How sad that years ago nobody knew anything about postnatal depression and one wonders how many lives could have been saved or made easier if more had been known about this disease back then.
In defence of the mother - boy am I going to get a bashing for this - she must have felt that her children would be better off in another place, far away from the life that she had been struggling through. There are so many stories, even today, about parents killing their children and then taking their own lives, obviously not able to carry on with their lives and not wanting to leave their children behind. One will never be able to understand what another person is going through and it is not up to us to make judgement.
This does not mean I agree with what these people have done or people who commit suicide - I feel they are very selfish people but like I say, we can never understand what these people are going through to make them do what they do.
image24
very true michelle and very sad too,another case that happened in om,both sandy and i unfortunately,bore wittness to this event.we had a mutual friend called brent alkers[spelling mite be wrong]young brent unfortunately passed away and his poor mom could not live without him,she took her own life.a very sad and disturbing thing for all to handle at the time
Ive stayed out fo this one till now .. The story was as i remember always related to in hushed tones .. and yes we would stop at the grave and look and in our young minds try to fathom out just what the hell happened ?? Post natal depression is a very real thing , I had a colleague at work , she had a year of misery , it affected her work , her marriage , her health .. only good thing was she talked about it .. and we listened and encouraged .. and she showed everyone the bottle of tranquilisers the doc had prescribed .. she never took one ..throughout the whole thing as she had seen a member of her family go to the dogs with developing dependence on them .. As it was pointed out years ago not much was known or understood about it .. it was just a case of ..
"whats wrong woman ?/ snap out of it .. children are supposed to make you happy and contented .. " ....
yes in a small community tragedy always seems to hit harder ..
It must be the most terreble thing to live through - such deep depression that drives you to the point where you see no other way than to kill your children and yourself. I personally think you can never judge people with depression if you have never experienced it yourself. There are so many people around us in every day life who live with depression, but they do not talk about it or try to hide it and eventually it leads to this kind of deed or they commit suicide, then everyone around them are in awe, 'cos that person always seemed so happy.
Well said Michelle - as you said, we can never condone something so heinous as taking out your own children - but i've always said i can understand with empathy (again, without condoning) what could drive a mother to do something like that under the dark cloud of depression........in her mind she must've thought she was doing right by her children - i know this is not depression related, just a normal part of raising children but there were many times when Caryn was a baby when that incessant crying was enough to drive me up the wall and to do something, anything just to stop that crying when i was sleep deprived, going thru shit with my ex, etc. etc. She was a cat-napper for the first 2 years of her life, she would sleep for 20 minutes at a time - i was a walking zombie and to this day still feel as tho i've never really caught up with that sleep - sleep deprivation was a well known torture method (among others) in POW camps, enough to drive the toughest person around the twist, all it takes is to slip over that fine line between sanity and insanity..........Thankfully most of us are able to walk away from those moments when we feel we're losing it with our kids, but sadly some of us can't - thank God i was able to walk away, go for a walk in the garden, put earphones on and listen to music, etc...........
"Judge not, and neither condemn, for you know not why a thing occurs, nor to what end..."
@ Bobby, it was Brent Olckers, he passed away with Leucemia and had a sister Sonya Olckers. Gus should remember her as well from the Bop Session days, very attractive woman.
Spoke to my sister Cathy yesterday and she does not remember the family name or the name of her friend who was murdered.
All she remembers is that she was very traumatized when she found out that her friend was killed by her own mother because the last time she saw her was when her mother called her to come and bath! She said she remembered her friend's mother seemed to be annoyed.
Yes Michelle I must agree with all you say, that poor woman must have been going through HELL
and not to have anyone to be able to talk to and to try and understand...........even in todays day and
age you still get people who will say pull yourself together......get on with it!!! And of course the MACHO MEN that
will laugh and say oh it's 'just another neurotic woman!!'
Until you've walked in their shoes!!! There that's all I'm saying on that subject........for now!! Sometimes all it needs (not in that case) is to have
a really good friend to talk to cat1.gif
Quote from: pam spackman on July 02, 2008, 07:42:34 PM
Yes Michelle I must agree with all you say, that poor woman must have been going through HELL
and not to have anyone to be able to talk to and to try and understand...........even in todays day and
age you still get people who will say pull yourself together......get on with it!!! And of course the MACHO MEN that
will laugh and say oh it's 'just another neurotic woman!!'
Until you've walked in their shoes!!! There that's all I'm saying on that subject........for now!! Sometimes all it needs (not in that case) is to have
a really good friend to talk to cat1.gif
In my times of working in the bars in town .. i got a very good insight into what Pam is saying .. people just talked .. and yes you were invisible .. the virtual fly on the wall .. again i never mention names .. but one evening while on duty in the stauschlager .. ( not even Caseys) one " gentleman " was saying to his pals gently sipping beer that " My Missus is complaining about my time spent in the bars .. she's trying to cut into my drinking time .. maybe its time I gave her another baby to keep her occupied and not bother me so much " .. Firstly it sounded like he only bonked her to procreate .. or said "Ok Luv off the pill its baby time again " needless to say I could not bite my tongue .. and told him off , firstly not to talk so disrespectfully about his wife in public .. and secondly that she married him to share her life with him and maybe if he tried to spend some quality time with her he might discover some things he never really knew .. again i was not a popular chappie .. i thank my lucky stars i had a fiercely independent being as my mother ,she set benchmarks ..
I think it is time for me to open my mouth about this topic (depression) and what has happened in my life. Yes, Sandy, you are quite right in what you said there. I want to share this with you and I say it with a heavy heart.
My late wife committed suicide due to depression which none of us were aware of. The night she shot herself, she could have very easily had turned the revolver on us before shooting herself but didn't. Moral of the story is, if you do not know the symptons, it can and will be too late like in my case. Not even the doctors whom my wife worked for at that time, picked up that she was depressed and obviously was a great shock to them as well. Fortunately for me and my eldest son, I had learnt from this and have saved my son from committing suicide on a number of occassions. My son is suffering with manic depression (bipolar disorder) which was sparked off with the trauma we went through. I can write a lot about this topic as have been there and got the t-shirt. I have done a lot of research about it especially due to my son suffering with his ailment. I Praise God that today he is well and stable with chronic medication. I am prepared to share with anyone that wants to or needs to know more.
Kind Regards,
Pepe
@ Pepe e154
Thank-you for sharing that with us, our postings under this topic must have stirred a lot of memories for you.
Funny enough the topic in church on Sunday was (in a nutshell) about what you go through in life will enable you to help other people. Make any sense? Speaking from experience - my brother was killed in a car accident in Oct 2003 and a year later my dad was diagnosed with leukemia. My dad is fine today and he and my mom have been able to help and be a very positive influence/inspiration for other people going through similar problems.
I wish I had more time but I have to get girls ready for school now.
@ Michele
You are welcome Michele. Yes, unfortunately it did bring back a lot of memories to me but felt the need to share with others as well. What you say about the church service you had is correct. I truly believe that God prepared me for big things and yes, God uses you in a lot of ways to help and support others.
I am sorry to hear about your losses as well but Praise God for your fathers healing!!!. Your father is a living Testomany to others and of God's work. Walk in Faith, be Strong in the Lord and His Word and you will see what happens in your life.
The same goes for my son, I have visualised him standing in front of a church congregation and sharing his testomany with others of what God has done in his life. It is awesome and exciting to know what God is busy doing in his life. I Trust and Believe that it is just a matter of time that Craig will be Healed AMEN!!!
Thanks for sharing , being open and talking from the heart Pepe ..
@ Sandy, thanks Sandy, pays to be open and honest. One never knows who has been through what and can maybe be of help or assistance should they land up in similar situations.
Kind Regards,
Pepe
I take my hat off to you Pepe, this illness is scary for those who suffer from depression and for those around them.
@ Julie, thank you very much Julie. Things are not easy and especially as a single parent makes it a bit harder. But never the less, we will always prevail. Fortunately Craig is stable today and has not had any relapses and no mood swings for 6 months.
Yes Pepe,this is truly an illness that has to be shared, but because it cannot
always be seen,e.g. a broken leg, it is often missed or swept under the carpet!!
My thoughts are with you and keep strong cheers
Thanks Pam, appreciate all:-)
Paul I can sympathise with you and have been through very similar experience with my sister however we were aware of her
depression for approx 5 years she received treatment/ hospitalisation etc and yet we her family, even seeking advise on how to assist her, felt
alone and helpless. It's a dreadful experience. For those left behind there remain in ones memory many unanswered questions? God Bless you
From Pat Heiser (Dodd)
@ Pat, thank you for the kind words. I must say I have walked a very long road with Craig to date. I Praise God that he is doing so well. I havn't seen him looking so well in 6 years. I am sorry and sad to hear about your loss as well. We are fortunate that today there is far better treatment than earlier days. Where is Trevor and do you have any contact with him? Keep well and regards to all. Kind regards, Paul
Hi Michael,
According to my Mom, May Barron (O'mund 1951-1972) the heading to this event should have been "murder most tragic". Colin Earley and myself were actually playing in the "veld" near the cemetary on the day of the funeral and witnessed the very sad burial. the tragic event as I recall, with the help of my Mom, Nancy Stocken and Paddy Marx occurred on a Friday or Saturday. They did live in the vicinity of 5th/6th Ave, close to the old shopping centre. The father worked in the security department, and was on duty at the time. Apparently after drowning the children she slit her wrists and then ran down the street when the wife of another member of the security dept found her bleeding and crying. The wife went into the house and found the children (still in the bath). The grave has two entwined angels embossed on the headstone, and is not far from my father's grave. The mother did spend time in Valkenburg and the father remarried. Could you PLEASE tell us the name of the family, as it is now driving us all batty!
Thanks in anticipation!
Regards, Ricky Barron.
Hi Ricky, thanks for that account. The topic was chosen as Murder most foul, as I had no idea as to what the photographs alluded to. Our online slueths pieced this mystery together quite quickly though... and I am gonna leave work just now...go home and fetch my camera and head down to the graveyard quickly...
Here we go...... The end of the mystery........
Hi Michael,
Thanks for clearing that up, I've been wracking my brains ever since you posted the subject. I got the details of the angels a bit mixed up, but there you go.
Regards, Ricky.
so glad to hear all the stories on this site....i was diagnosed with depression/stress the week chris had his triple by pass....and im still off work untill next week......i had denied i had it for months before i finally cracked and went to the doctors...a build up of a lot of different problems but 1 that didnt help was when my mum died at 50 all the doctors she visited said she was just going through the menopause and all the changes to her body...loosing weight...hot sweats were all due to that....and gave her anti depressants....the day she died....from lung cancer....when i got to 50 i breathed a sigh of relief.......that i was still alive lol but i had been going to the doctors for 2 years saying i knew something was wrong with me...they said it would be the start of the menopause...ok.....then i went back and back....same answer its your age...then after about 2 years and about 6 visits i saw a lady doctor, told her all the men doctors blamed my hormones but that i knew something was wrong....she agreed gave me tests....and whey ........i had an illness one that neaded treatment if i was ever going to get better........well i wont get better its incurable......but at least i knew i wasnt going crazy..............now i know i am going through the menopause and i know thats mostly why i havent been able to cope with everything thats been happening recently.....and what have they done.......given me anti depressants.....apparently thats how they treat the menapuase.....but can i tell you also that all these crimes that are commited and things like depression....pmt...post natal depression are blamed.......i can fully understand why.......i havent wanted to kill myself........JUST EVERYONE AROUND ME.....lol..... the depression is also the reason i havent been on here as often .....so hopefully ill be back to normal soon.........whatever normal is lol
3d smiles(281) Bev - looking forward to seeing more of you online!
@ Bev - bighug whenever you are ready for us we are here for you...
Hi Bev, I really do commiserate (sp) with you. As soon as you hit your late 40's EVERYTHING is THE MENOPAUSE!!!
which as far as I'm concerned...........it's the PITS!! But it will get better, but the night sweats never seem to go away.
But do have a chat anytime...no matter when as it helps to chat..........no matter what about' am here for you.
I hope you are feeling a lot better.Don't give up.
Thinking of you Pam dawoman yougogirl 3d smiles(281)
Thank you all once again for you very kind words...rhona had me in tears reading her message lol.......but much appreciated....think im ok now...............think it was more stress than depression with me...but all the symptom i had pointed to severe depression....that in itself made me feel strange....ive got my sister coming over from ireland tomorro for a week,,,,then im going back to work........also as you will see by the time i have posted this, im still not getting the sleep i need ...so i will say goodnight and thanx to each and everyone of you,,,, 3d smiles(281)
I can relate to you Bev,although I don't have an illness. I to went through a killing spree last year.With the menopause thing and my fathers death I lost the plot totally.I'm surprised Stephen didn't leave me as I would have left myself if I could. Then I was fortunate to have such a wonderull husband,who I put through hell. My friends as well,ask Debbie and Richard but they all stood by me.
So Bev you to have us on this forum and as Rhona said we are here for you to chat or whatever it is you needing at the time. I must say the forum started up about that time, and I found it wonderfull to loose myself in here. Now I've been taking Cipralex for a year and everything is cool Bananna Fudge.
Take care and DON'T dissapear from here. bighug
Hi Pepe Re your question about Trevor. Trevor died in a car accident in the November of 1984 (my Dad died of cancer in the June of same year).
It's quite a story about police efficiency when it came to us finding out about Trevor's death. The police never informed us we found out through the
Oranjemund grapevine. Regards Pat Heiser
Hi Pat, I am very sad to hear that my heart goes out to you and the family. We knew Trevor very well and went to school with him, he was a great guy. The same as with my brother Tony's death, it is still a unresolved mystery and will never get to know the truth or what actually happened.
Kind Regards,
Pepe
@ Diana, love the bit about "I would have left myself if I could", feel like that myself often. Sometimes think Wilhelm only sticks it out with me because I do the farm's books. I have been on Cipralex for quite a while, think I inherited my Mom's depression. They pills helped a lot in the beginning but lately not so much, think my body might be getting too used to them or else I am starting menopause.
They put me on ciprelex for menopause....helps with the murdering.
Been on it for a year now.......life is so cool ..... weed
Is it safe to mix it with Aunty's Afternoon wine Binges....?
I myself was on "Cipramil" for about 2 years (5 years ago) was suffering from a bit of burnout and anxiety from all the stresses going on at work and my homelife at the time. This was apparently to correct the seratonin levels in the brain, the doctor advised. I eventually took myself off them gradually after things had calmed down to a panic at home and I managed to get assistance at work.
I have now been off for about 5 years but yet today when I apply for a policy or enlarge my pension policy at work the insurance companies give me greef about that. Have a clause in my policy stating that if I ever die from psychological related death then they will not pay out.
Once again, a case of the insurance company willing to take your money .... but will not pay up when the time of your demise arrives....
meanpuff
Too true .. whatever happened to the " two year exclusion " and a clean bill of health ... we can all be knocked by the waves of life , need help and then recover ..
Anyhow if its an exisiting policy thats having another layer added after the happening it should theoretically not be altered ... Dalene help here ??
My mind just took a wicked twist thinking about Dunjas story .. " We all die as a result of having lived ".. so hey maybe they can also use that as grounds for not paying out ? :wow1:
Did anyone see the Movie in which Billy Connoly starred " The man who sued God " ?? it was indeed fun ...
Billy was a fisherman...his boat got zapped by lightning.... that one?
Yup .. split my sides watching that movie ..
... due to the fact that the church claimed to be God's representatives here on earth and due to the fact that the insurance company would not pay out due to a lightning strike being classified as an act of god...... he sued the church.... I think only Billy (maybe Jim Carrey) could have played that role....... I also like Bruce Almighty with Morgan Freeman and Jim..Carrey.....!