Here is a lemon to pass around ..I would not normally do this , but yes by their actions and delaying tactics Liberty Life have now taken me too far .. I am waiting 10 months down the line from death for Payout on annuity policies taken out by John my Life partner .. the specific contract with Liberty Life states me as sole nominated beneficiary .. the trustees blocked processing in the hope of reaching the 12 month limit which would absolve them from any liability .. this I only discovered after going to the offices and refusing to move untill I got answers ... One of their senior guys took the matter up for me ..and things seemed to start moving again .. they have now ground to a halt and even he is not answering my mails ( methinks he has hit the brick wall again and embarressed and ducking .. normal human reaction ) after all this time hatching the policy claim papers .. they seem to need some more documents from the previous pension fund of John which was dissolved many years ago ?? Huh !! I have sent these pictures to their CEO this morning as well .. have been driving around this weekend with these signs on my car .. the calls are coming in and the mails arive .. I tell my story .. the thank goodness is I am financially self sufficient otherwise I would have been in the crap by now .. PASS IT ON .. AND BE AWARE WHO YOU INVEST WITH . AND MAKE SURE YOU HAVE EVERY I DOTTED AND EVERY T CROSSED ...
Insurances are only interested in signing up, thats the first ripp off
The next ripp off when it comes to paying, they will do anything not to pay
Go and BoomSmilie_anim the bastards
Hi Georg .. Just pass it on to whoever you can via email .. they are part of an international group .. the more lemons passed and the further the radius the better .. at the end of the road .. i do this not only for myself but for others who could be equally affected ..
:emot112_2:
Well done Sandy. Put the photo in your local paper as well. This should attract their attention.
madashell shooter Way to go Sandy..... is'nt there a consumer complaints thing in the Newspapers?
Hi Sandy You should post something on Hullopeter.com they love this kind of thing and also send a letter to the insurance OMBUDMAN, he will also jump on their case and there is also Wendy Knowler, the consumer lady at the Cape Times, get hold of her. I have sent them and email telling them they stink. I also have two policies with them. Just ges to show they want your money but don'y want to pay. Go to their offices like I suggested in a PM to you. Their office in the center of CT and create all hell. Take your flask etc, ahould be good. and give them BoomSmilie_anim Good luck Kaye
Did that all .. as said things got moving and then stopped .. anyhow outcome at moment is somebody from head office has taken over .. payment of the one policy is in the tube .. that I have no problem with .. second one got jammed in their system again .. anyhow their CEO has got my eMAIL with the pics of my car .. so if he's wise he will do a full investigation .. and send me letter of apology ...
On the subject of the newspapers .. I did phone a month or so ago .. they dont handle insurance in argus action etc .. too complicated they say .. contacted the ombudsman ,, they refered me to pensions adjudicator .. and they to have a long drawn out procedure .. Like said went to CT office in canal walk would not leave till i got answers .. the poor guy who took it over has done his best .. but too hit a brick wall last week .. now head office is handling it .. I have peace .. i have thrown the lemon back ( compliments to Kaye ) ....
Hi Sandy, we had our Insurance with LIBERTY LIFE from years ago, it MATURED last year October
and we are still battling to get it PAID OUT to the U.K!!!!!!! All sorts of excuses.....but we are NOT
giving up!!!! madashell
Don't mention Liberty Life to me, it makes me image14!
Had to go for operation 2 years ago. I've paid Liberty for 12 years, and never claimed. Before the op, they assured me they would pay. After op - they paid the surgeon, but the hospital was paid only R72.00, yes, that's all. The rest of the hospital bill and the anesthetist I had to pay myself. I went straight to head office - didn't collect at "start" and got this idiot on the phone who told me "Oh sir, then you didn't read our fine print"!!!!!! That was enough. I canceled my membership immediately, and told them I'll put up a 2m x 2m sign in my practice the next day to warn people to stay away from Liberty. I would also from then on refuse to see any Liberty patients, and will also publish a nice article where people can see it.
- They paid my bills, and also paid me back a percentage of the 12 years I paid them loyally for hiding facts from me. One big plus on my side, I had the conversation with them on tape, and they put their foot in it repeatedly during our conversation.
Good luck to you all, hope you get help soon.
Hah ! me not so alone on this one .. what puzzles the .... out of me is dont they learn ?? they must be getting crap thrown at them every day if this is the pattern from a small sampling of people .. when our customers complain too much we immediately set about correcting situation and putting preventative measures in place .. to try ensure a pattern of repetition does not happen ............. seems they just wade their way throught he shyt every day and accept it as the norm ..
Dont get me wrong .. I believe in life insurance .. I believe its a valuable thing to have , as its a form of compulsory saving .. if one starts young and for a small premium a month put into annuities ra's or just plain life cover endowments .. when and if the shyt hits the fan it can if it has life cover as well pay out handsomely .. better than if it was just invested .. unless of course you a whizzkid on the stock exchange .. or got into property loong time ago and invested wisely there etc ..
Johns company provident fund paid out within 2 1/2 months .. that should be the norm .. problem is increasing laxity and could not care attitude seems to be on the increase nowadays .. people hide behind each other in their mediocrity .. especially in big organistaions ..
The general thinkin on matters like that is:
You want something from them, they think go ahead and claim, go to court and lawyers, wait until the final moment to test you how far you will go.
We have a TV show called WISO in the ZDF, you can state your case and if lucky they will broadcast it and even visit the firm or Insurance for a statement
I have a running case, get letters every month and threats, last letter said, final warning before going to court
I wrote back: Thanks, thats exactly what i want, Court ASAP as i have asked you months ago, we look forward to win that case LOL..... No reply yet until the next letter ????? No more answers from me unless from court.
Thats the Game, taking chances
My Case was in that TV show, they said " Dont Pay " !!!!!!
The firm consists of an empty office, just a post Box, the owner is in Britain
I even made a web site to warn others.
Thats how it looks, i dit send them the link and said TAKE ME TO COURT FOR THAT
http://hometown.aol.de/_ht_a/ageorgruf/genealogie.html
My 2c worth to Sandy's dilemma.
Most brokers direct you towards a Liberty Life policy, because Liberty makes use of a slacked underwritring procedure when it comes to new applications. Also, the brokers get the best commission structure from this. Due to the policy issue time (very quickly, because of the slacked underwriting), the broker gets his commission real fast.
No other company will link medicals under the LOA structure with the medical records of Liberty, due to above mentioned underwriting structure. This is where the problems arise in a claim situation - only then do they start digging into detailed medical history of the client, then comes up with reasons not to pay due to "supposed" withholding of information at inception of the policy. When taking out a risk type policy i.e. with life cover or severe illness cover, one always has to go for blood tests and maybe sometimes even go to the doctor for a full medical report, an ECG test etc etc. Most people see this as a schlep. I always tell my client that they should see it as a free medical checkup. When full underwriting has been done and everything has been declared regarding past and present medical history, and your policy application gets accepted on this base, there should be no problem once a claim arises in future under that specific policy.
Another thing - compare their illustrated projections for future maturity values. In some instances much higher than most other companies - ask yourself how this can be? A company with not half the asset values that even a normal commercial bank like Standard bank has, quotes at higher return figures than the big companies like Old Mutual and Sanlam.
Still, like Sandy says - be carefull when choosing a financial advisor or broker and be make very sure about the underlying structures and small print within your policy, not matter with what company your policy is. A very big concern for me still is, advisors and brokers who do not know the products or benefits they market or sell to clients. With all the FAIS rules and regulations in place, there are still those "Hit and run" guys out there who do business with clients mainly for their own gain and not for the benefit of the client.
Agreed Dalene .. I have policies with OM that will be maturing in 3 years time .. they are doing damm well cos i took them out young .. our broker /agent at the time was a personal friend .. so he apart from growing his business with us made sure it was also in our best reasonable interests .. The life cover part is the bonus if i shufffle off the mortal coil before I turn 55 ..
The problem I have had with Liberty revolved around the fact both policies were pensions and that the trustess were just too cowardly to make a decision in my favour even though i was nominated as sole beneficiary .. instead they ducked and stalled hoping for the 12 month period to pass .. even at one stage tried to pay it into the estate which would aslo absolve themselves from any claims in the highly unlikely event of somebody coming forward as a benficiary ..
Old Mutual at least came forward and asked for further proof of the Life partnership which although was upsetting I suppose was a valid concern .. once that was in place they started to move ,, not as fast as they should have but at least they were upfront ..
So the dilemma as Dalene describes I have is actually for me a life lesson .. It has in retrospect made me strong , wiser and yes somebody who will pass on my experience to others ..
First bit of advice to anyone in a life partnership .. irrespective of how good a track record of partnership vis .. financial records , in our case joint bonds , joint municipal accounts .. Go out and do the civil ceremony .. as odious as it may seem to some .. DO IT !! strangely enough that piece of paper stamped by a magistrate that does not know you from a bar of soap seems to do the trick .. despite the fact that common law marriage / relationship is recognised by our constitution ... so thats the advice i pass on ....
I can just confirm again what Sandy says.
Review your will at least every 2 years. Make sure about benificiary nominations - provide ID's where possible to submit with your benificiary appointment forms.
When in a partner relationship with no marriage certificate (same or different sex partnerships apply to this) - please make avidavids about your partnership and specifically mention wether there are dependants/children/financial dependants etc. This will just make all the legal technicalities easier should death of one partner occur.
Our pension fund (Spar) is with Old Mutual and on 30 January 2007 one of our employees was killed in a car accident, we are still waiting for them to pay out!
Michele, I sent you a PM in this regard. Unfortunatley I am not linked to Old Mutual Namibia, so I cannot try to assist you from this side.
Michelle,
Speak to Mercer Leeb. He comes to Oranjemund on a regular basis. You can get his contact details from his sister-in-law. Annis Schlechter.
Thanks for all the help and info - I spoke to our Old Mutual agent yesterday again and he was supposed to be faxing me through a letter yesterday explaining what was happening - still waiting of course!
I am going to say in the open what I have said to Michele in a private mail:
If your agent is not doing his/her work and giving you the service that you pay for (commission is included in your admin and contractual levy's that forms part of your premiums), then change agent. Why pay someone that does not work for you. Will you employ someone in your business who just appears on the payroll, but does nothing, or give salary to a domestic worker who never comes to work or even - pay a furniture account for furniture you did not buy? NO, I did not think so........ why then pay your financial advisor who does not do his job?
When you appoint an agent, directly spell out to them on what base you should be contacted (annually, every 6 months, quarterly etc.). Make sure your agent is readily availible to you, and that you get notified when this person is on leave or away from the office. Get contact details of private secretaries etc. No matter how small your premiums - you are a client and you are therefore entitled to justified service.
Well said, Dalene. I must admit, my financial/insurance knowledge is limited, and I have therefor fallen into the trap of believing everything the agent tells me in the past and that he/she is giving me the best advice possible. Then few months later, another agent tells me a different story, and so on, and so on. If you have an agent who gives you the service you pay them for (like Dalene said), keep them, if not, get somebody else. Dalene, I might ask you for advice in the near future - knowing you, at least I know I'll get honest and sound advice!
yougogirl
How to pay people that p*ss you off :
This topic worry's be terribly, we have a few policies with Lib Life and have a great agent who has been most helpfull over the years. We have been payed out a policy that has matured with no problems. Now my worry is, G*d forbid Stephen should die,then what? Am I too going to have the same problems as Sandy?
Diana .. in theory you should have no problems .. You are married .. as below my words from earlier
Old Mutual at least came forward and asked for further proof of the Life partnership which although was upsetting I suppose was a valid concern .. once that was in place they started to move ,, not as fast as they should have but at least they were upfront ..
So the dilemma as Dalene describes I have is actually for me a life lesson .. It has in retrospect made me strong , wiser and yes somebody who will pass on my experience to others ..
First bit of advice to anyone in a life partnership .. irrespective of how good a track record of partnership vis .. financial records , in our case joint bonds , joint municipal accounts .. Go out and do the civil ceremony .. as odious as it may seem to some .. DO IT !! strangely enough that piece of paper stamped by a magistrate that does not know you from a bar of soap seems to do the trick .. despite the fact that common law marriage / relationship is recognised by our constitution ... so thats the advice i pass on ....
and Dalenes words
When in a partner relationship with no marriage certificate (same or different sex partnerships apply to this) - please make avidavids about your partnership and specifically mention wether there are dependants/children/financial dependants etc. This will just make all the legal technicalities easier should death of one partner occur.
again it comes down to the agent / broker .. they should also be asking questions and assting their clients to help prevent the crap i have ahd to endure .. as Dalene has said even she is now wiser to the machinations of trustees trying to avoid making decisions .. and will advise her clients in similar situations accordingly ..
for me this has done only many things .. I'm now over the awful part of squabbling about what is rightly mine , even my car poster campaign although it satisfied the naughty / mischevious part of me left emotional exhaustion , that again I'm surprisingly in a day or so over .. so yes this experience too has a positiive side .. made me stronger and more worldly wise .. ( we never too old to learn ) and yes a person with a mission to go out and give advice to as many people i know in same relationship situation .. tell them to do whatever necessary and not to rely upon the trust of a contract that they took out in good faith ...
I have meeting with my Om broker tomorrow to look at options for the compulsory part of payout..( Liberty are not going to get my business after this episode ) and i will be asking the most pointed questions to ensure all goes according to my wishes ...
Sandy go to a traditional witch doctor, pay him a hundred bucks to back date a traditional marriage license and bobs your uncle. Bet you they will not quibble over that. LOL. Worked for a friends of mine who were in a similar kind of state. But their fight was against Sanlam( Boer mentality). They got their money quickly especially when they threatened to go to Nose Week (Martin Weltz) Try it, you have nothing to loose. Or phone his Secretary and say you are from SARS. promise you will get through first time, especially when you say it is regards his personal tax.
Reagrds and keep your chin up and do a Mrs Doubtfire, throw the lemons back harder than they throw them at you!!!! SKINNY BoomSmilie_anim
Thanks to you all for all the support shown and advice .. My update is everything has been moving with lightning speed since my car poster campaign .. I was flooded with calls from Liblife ... that was due to my flooding their email system with the pictures ( any email address of any subsidiary as well ) evry hour on the hour that I had no response on monday morning .. I now get daily telephonic update from head office communications director ?? strange name .. but yes they communicating .. the first one which was in process has been paid out and now safely in my personal investment account ... I went to my Old mutual advisor today to get best option for the pension preserver 2/3 that has to according to original contract go to similar product .. i have no pains with that .. only diffs is Liblife are not getting the business .. they have to hand the full 2/3 over to Old Mutual ( opposition ) and have lost a potential new customer and possibly quite a few others due to my campaign resulting from their antics ..
As far as the response to the campaign went .. well i was surprised .. many emails from strangers giving support .. asking questions .. worried as they had policies with liblife .. i just gave them short sweet advice based on what Dalene has said go back to the broker / agent and ask more questions on best and worst case scenarios .. make them work for that commission if you have any doubts ..
And then the phonecalls .. me driving along .. phone rings .. " is that you in the blue Clio ? " .." yes " ... " I was driving behind you , or I got this via email , please tell me the story , I have policies with LibLife and am now concerned " ..... again I give brief outline of the story and advise them to contact broker /agent .. and ask the pointed questions ..... there were a few shaky cases I heard .. amazing how some people just sell policies without warning the client of possible pitfalls in the carrying out of their contracted wish or instruction by the insurer when the paw paw hits the fan ..
Final outcome of this whole thing .. the talking and responding has been very cleansing , has released some more of the pain of loss .. and yes i repeat again I am wiser but not mistrustful , thats a negative energy to carry with one ..
I threw a lemon but in the vein of my personal viewpoint on lemons .. this is my personal view on them ..
" When life throws a lemon at you , first thing you do is hold it and study it carefully .. ask these questions .."
1. Did i have a personal responsibility in the receiving of this lemon ? If you find that you did , then suck on it a bit to use its bitterness as a life lesson and then pass on the wisdom of what you ahve learnt .
2. If you did not have a pesonal responsibity in the lemon and the sender was vindictive or unfair then yes throw it back with all your might ..
3. Sometimes no amount of lemon throwing is going to make a difference , then you ask life to pass the tequila and the salt .. in essence walk away from the situation ..
there is nothing hard and fast in the above and its very flexible .. sometimes you will find you will do a bit of all 3 things ( dont know if i did but it feels like that ) .. most important is to do first hold it and study and ask the questions .. otherwise you end up hurting yourself at times ..
Isn't this the kind of complaint that should also be addressed to the insurance ombudsman as well - it stinks all over!!! All insurance schemes are shark schemes - they will always try to get the maximum for the minimum and will most definaely withold information that will predjudice in the long run. Just like your bank manager, they are not your friends interested in your wellfare but rather out to see how much they can get out of you for as long as possible!!!! The unfortunate part in the whole story is that you are screwed without them and screwed with them!!
Cheryl .. sometimes not worth the bother going to long term ombudsman or pension fund adjudicator . it could drag things ut even longer .. i had done my initial enquiries and came to that conclusion .. My campaign worked .. and advice to anybody .. when you meet adversity such as this .. then do the same a car poster campaign and then send pics to the company .. the CEO's PA and any subsidiaries .. even their rivals .. It seems to work cos even getting it into the papers is difficult ..
@ Sandy - I'm glad things are looking up. That's one bit of stress we dont need, hey! Good luck, rooting for you!
abouttime
THE FINAL OUTCOME ..
Got a phone call from the " communications director " on monday morning .. turns out after doing a lot more digging on the case and the policies .. the last one was not a " pension preserver ' but a provident .. Which means that I do not have to do the 1/3 -- 2/3 investment thing .. i get it all minus the taxmans slice .. that i can recover within a year of interest growth and savings on the bonds .. Now Dalene mentioned earlier in topic that they have slack underwriting procedures .. seems to be very slack as they did not even really know what type of policy it was .. and i would ahve been locked into the 1/3 - 2/3 if she had not done her homework ..
I got a lovely letter from the lady today giving me the full breakdown including interest from Sept last year .. and an apology for the inappropriate way in which the claim was handled and the delays which I accept in good grace .. I hope they use it as a lesson in how not to do things ..
In closing .. my car poster thing and the spread across the email plus social .. has revealed some real horror stories .. I consider myself lucky .. I did not have family trying to interfere .. I heard stories of where family have tried to sabotage everything .. all fine while their child/ sibling was alive .. but the minute they shuffled off all hell broke out for the one left behind .. that would have been a double blow , that although not unresolvable would ahve made my life hell .. so once again .. make sure all the I's are dotted and the T's crossed .. and pass on my experience to anyone you know who is in a partner realtionship ..
:emot112_2: allgood
Sandy, Liberty Life and their policies are a very sore subject with me and would take too long to elaborate. Needless to say I would never recommend any of their products and in fact actively steer people elsewhere.
Instead of providing a return on investment the one policy actually cost me money. The value dropping each year in the final five years before payout.
@ Clive .. Ouch ! at least what john had put in grew and one had life cover ( the magical ingredient that outstrips any saving if one snuffs ) .. just the difficulty I had in getting what was left to me .. but yes i would never do business with them and would not recomend them to anyone I know ..
Good Idea for a new website..... Libertylifesux.com
image19
Good one Mike .. for me i walk away from this one ... got what was due .. their problems will catch up with them .. and they will reap what they ahve sown .. I believe the wheel is round and what goes around comes around .. my campaign will most probably surface on the net every so now and again as stuff does .. just as a reminder ...
@Clive - once again I come back to the broker on the money you lost.
Your policy most likely was invested into a full share portfolio that gains no fixed or claim bonuses at the end of each specified period in a year. Thus, the total value of your investment was linked directly to the value of the underlying shares in the specific fund into which your capital was invested. I make the assumption, because I don't have the proper info, that the risk factor of the underlying fund was not mentioned. At the time you took out the policy, the shares were doing real good, so the broker assumably directed you towards the specific underlying fund, did the quote and promised you a return after a number of years, based on the quote that was done at time of inception.
Now, my point: your broker should have contacted you again on a yearly basis to review your total portfolio, but also to review the underlying funds of all your policies and should have reccommended you do a fund switch within to policy to a more stable fund or even to a guaranteed fund.
To everyone who reads this: PLEASE TAKE NOTE OF THE FACT THAT YOU ARE ALLOWED TO DO FUND SWITCHES WITHIN YOUR POLICIES FROM A HIGH RISK FUND TO A LOWER RISK FUND OR A SMOOTHED BONUS FUND. HOWEVER, IF YOU ARE IN A GUARANTEED FUND, YOU CANNOT SWITCH TO A HIGHER RISK FUND TO GET EXPOSURE TO A POSSIBLE HIGHER RETURN LEVEL. THE SWITCH MAY COST YOU A FEW BUCKS, THAT IS DEDUCTED DIRECTLY FROM YOUR FUND VALUE, BUT IN THE END YOU MIGHT BE HAPPIER WITH THE SWITCH THAN LOSING A BIG AMOUNT OF MONEY ON MATURITY DATE. AGAIN - TAKE THIS UP WITH YOUR OWN ADVISOR WHOM YOU TRUST OR GET ANOTHER ONE WHO IS BETTER INFORMED! My advise to people who near retirement age is always to review your funds, even in your own pension fund. Even there you are allowed to switch.
Tanks for dat advice ... will keep it in mind ..
Daleen, beleive you me 40 years ago when the policy was taken out all the options you have available today were not available then.
Yes the policy promised a return and initially all the correspondence indicated yearly gains some better than others, but as I said in the final 5 years these dropped by leaps and bounds (even though other investments indicated growth and I had the proof of that growth in annual percentages) The liberty broker I eventually contacted gave me facts an figures CPI indexes etc and said that the Liberty managers took a cautious approach ( that lost me money)
Anyway as you can tell I do not trust Liberty Life or brokers in general, I beleive they take the cream of any investment the public make in their company.
And dont get me started on the Banking industry,
Thats a subject on its own.
Cautious approach - in my language that means guarantees! This fool was taking a cautious approach with you, for he knew you were on the verge of knocking out his teeth & post them to the house mouse who is the big boss at Liberty.
This is very bad of me, but do you know what we lot in the Mutual say about Liberty - sort of gave them a slogan of our own:
Liberty Life - you are someone special to us, thus you have the freedom to lose your money any witch way you like.
Hey Dalene .. i hope you tucked in bed with laptop ... and not wandering around home ... rest rest rest ...
Exactly where I am. PJ's on - under blankets - got a flask of tea & 2 litres of water with me (space on the bedside table is being fought over by bottles, mug, glass, flask). Only time I get up is to go to the loo.....
Daleen,
I like your slogan.
Just you just get well and enjoy the rest
Sorry, don't mean to be flippant about something very serious, but I couldn't resist posting this :
Sex-Insurance
===========
Recent studies have shown increasing demand of people not only seeking life insurance, but more specifically Sex-Insurance.
The insurance companies have formulated the following options:
Option 1:
If you sleep with your wife
- LEGAL & GENERAL
Option 2:
If you sleep with your wife in your car
- AUTO & GENERAL
Option 3:
If you sleep with someone else's wife:
- MUTUAL & FEDERAL
Option 4:
Sleeping with your mother-in-law
- OLD MUTUAL
Option 5:
If you sleep with a Bushman-girl
- SANLAM
Option 6:
Sleeping with more than one person at the same time
- PRESTASIE MULTIPLEX
Option 7:
Taking advantage of the person you sleep with
- LIBERTY LIFE
Option 8:
Man sleeping with another man
- HOLLARD
Option 9:
Having sex on the spur of the moment
- MOMENTUM
Option 10:
Sleeping with your ex-wife
- OUTSURANCE
Option 11:
Sleeping with a prostitute
- BUDGET
Option 12:
Having sex with someone you don't even know
- DISCOVERY
Taking advantage of the person you sleep with
- LIBERTY LIFE
Ha ha !!
image201
Think I'm gonna change from Discovery to Libety Life!