Under Bot attack i mentioned paul going through PMS ( post mini syndrome ) he sold his old Mini today and was feeling sort of down .. a sort of separation anxiety ... well the hope .. let me explain it ... the buyer is a young black man MK ( his nickname ) .. he the boyfriend of Vuli that works with Paul at the deli down the road .. This is one sorted young man .. a student .. works call center after hours to help finance his studies .. got his banking sorted out to the extent of 32 day call etc .. did final paymnt via my PC on internet .. 4 happenings / things he said took my attention .
1. I am buying and old Mini voetstoots and i know its not the best and i know i am going to have to work on her ..but its a start .. the better cars come when i have the means ..
2. over tea .. ( I had my wine of course ) he sort of mapped out his and Vulis expectations of life .. and it revolved around " baby steps' start slowly and build .. build build .. its got value then ..
3. Tina is a tricky BITCH .. she is very funny with people .. some she loves and others she just well does not like and takes every opportunity to bite their ankles no matter how much they suck up to her .. well this young man and his amoir she just took to instinctively .. our animal children never lie do they ??
4. inbetween all goings on i was scanning the papers .. and made the comment about the news ..being the same old c ..p his reply was yes the news about all and sundry including our so called future president and others is just so well you know .. .. why do they even waste their time on him .. ??
now if there were more free thinkers of the new emerging generation .. not having expectation but realising that they have to make their own mark .. ?? so is their some hope ..
My feeling .. instictively I welcome such folk into my life .. they on my invite list .. they have decent values ..
COME NOW .. GIVE AT LEAST SOME COMMENT ......
Good to see there's young ones planning ahead. Very rare. Sounds like great guys.
Also amazing how animals see what kind of person you are long before we make the connection. Saw the same with my "kids" - if they walk up to somebody, i sommer know I'll get along with them. It's always been that way, I get along much better with animal lovers! cat1.gif
Sandy I agree with you. I am a racist and expect the worst from our previously disadvantaged people but every now and then one comes along that completely goes against your racist expectations and I then feel extremely guilty but unfortunately those ones are very few and far between and I look at the corruption in government and the way our country seems to be heading for disaster and the old racist feelings come back again. The strange thing is, my mother came to SA as a teenager from England and we were brought up very liberally, our Owambo houseman was treated like part of the family. When my hubby and I got married one of our problems were our different views towards the non-whites and he could never turn me against them. All the years I have spoken up for them and defended them and I am sorry to say, I am now a racist (worse than my husband ever was)and it has been no influence on my husband's side, I am just sick and tired of them throwing apartheid in our face. They are more racist than we are and most of them suffer from post-apartheid syndrome. They just want, want, want and once they get it, excuse the language but they then f... it up. My son started school with black children in his class and today he is disadvantaged because of apartheid? Sorry, got off the topic a bit, yes it is great when youngsters are prepared to work for what they want and are prepared to start small and build-up. Most kids nowadays want to start where their parents are after 20 or 30 years of working.
I think it's great that there are young people who have the right idea ito saving for the future. My son, Rafe, is one of those -he sets goals and achieves them also with money. He worked his butt off delivering pizas until he could buy his Apple Mac for cash.
On the racism thing, Florrie it's unfortunate that you feel that all black people are the same - they aren't, just like white aren't all nice, shiny people. But you have the right to your own views and I for one will not try to change your mind - each to his own.
Florrie .. while i admire your openness I do believe you should try reframe your expression and examine its origins as i am sure that deep down you are not what you state .. is it from personal experience .. or from viewing the developments in our country ?? they are two totally different dynamics .. politicians etc we can only try to get the good ones in through intelligent voting which is unfortunately still slow in this country .. populism and just sheeplike movement seems to be the norm .. and then there is the dynamic of always looking for good in all and beleiving in it .. strangely enough by believing one seems to be rewarded by attracting what you believe in .. It can work in the negative .. if you believe life will screw you over then indeed you will attract it and that seems to be from what i see with some people they believe it and it happens .. the positive side is going in with open mind and believing that life is not going to screw one over .. and always looking for the good in people and life .. generally apart from the usual dissapointments that are thrown at one as life lessons one tends to attract good experiences and good and honourable people enter ones life .. .. i call it shaping ones destiny .. I have practiced it most of my life and it has served me well ... so if you say you racist then you going to attract racist behaviour from those you have the thought towards ... Oh dear I'm rambling but yes ..
I'm not to sure what you want to say Sandy. Don't always understand the slang and some of the English words. But somehow the following post helps me...
I#ve still got a certain pic of SA and their citizins in my head. But the pic is 30 years old. And yet I try to understand what you guys are all on about. Reading words like racism, open-minded, free thinker ect. ... I'm sure I have different associations with these expressions, seeing that I've spent 30 years in Europe.
Germany has it's past. I don't need to tell you what I mean. Most people are very aware of the responcibilty we have when it comes to negotiations, forign policy ect. It's all about trying to understand how people are, why they are that way and what might help them get on.
To me it seems, history works like a pendal. (is that correct English) Swinging back and forth. Just they way SA had apartheid discrimmenating black people for many years, the pendal just goes in the other direction. Apartheid against white. Even though I'm sure what Cherry said is absolutely right. You have good and bad on both sides.
But the problem is, so many of you are disapointed because of corruption, inflation... You know better.
This makes you feel real sh***y. That's why I (in a way) understand Florrie. But I think it's important to keep a cool head und one must be ready to learn and to understand.
To me, Mandela is one of the most fantastic people of thre last century. He spent almost 30 years in jail. When he came out he said white and black must learn to live together in respect. No revenge!!! I think that's what it's all about.
This is something that happens all over the world. It's just so easy to see in SA, cause of the skin colour.
Europians could have put us down after WW2. No, they believed in us and gave us a chance. Germany has an important role in Europe and the world. This doesn't mean everybody is always happy with our way. But people look up to Germany and like to use us as an excample.I think this is a reward for liberalism towards other people and their beliefs. At least I hope so.
I hope it doesn't seem like I'm boasting to much. But Germany is obviously the best comparison I have.
I know it's so easy when I'm far away. But I'm sure, if the pendal goes back to the centre, it'll go back to where it was before. So it's up to both sides to keep a cool head and try to learn from each other.
Oh boy. I'm sure I'm in trouble again... drinking-41
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hey you lot, everyone to the bar(1) then we can all image 11 BierSuip get pissed quickdop and pole-small, SandyB, you can barrow one of my ousfits.
woo_hoo discodance image04
Is this a Kiss and make it up session Paula ?? east west north south black white .. or just an excuse to party and celebrate life ?? Paula which outfit ? your old wild west cathouse madam outfit ? I think its quite sassy .. looked damm good on you last time ..
@ Georg words well put ... input appreciated ...
Good comments one and all, always enjoy a healthy debate (when I get the time). I've never considered myself a racist, however there was a scene in the movie "The Chamber" (I think) with Gene Hackman, who plays a racist southerner on death row for murder. The lawyer in the movie is a liberal and doesn't consider himself racist so Hackmans character asks him: "When you're driving down the main road, in a hurry to get to your destination and a car full of black men cuts in front of you, driving at a snails pace with the boombox blaring out of the open windows, wheels all coated in chrome and windows tinted darker than night, what do you really think? Do you think: "I wish these gentlemen would pull over to the slow lane or do you think n******s?".
The lawyer didn't answer the question, but I though it was an intersting question to ask and demonstrates something quite key to race relations. We as people need to categorise things in life, its in our nature... items are always grouped into some sort of classification and sub-classification "animals", "dogs", "transport", "cars", "white", "black". While this is essential for us to get to grips with the world around us, it has one serious drawback and that is that it enforces sterotyping. We identify physical traits and characteristics of items and categorise them accordingly. So "White People" have white skin, differing colour eye's, differing colour hair etc. Pesonal experiences then encourage us to assign more tags to these categories (seemingly in an never ending quest to better understanding them), so if all of the white people you know eat waffles, then we deduce that eating waffles is another charateristic of white people. If you meet a white person who doesn't eat waffles, well then he's either the exception to the rule or he isn't really white.
So the problem at hand (racism) arises as a result of our natural tendancy to categorise things. We are largely unable to seperate things into their individual capacities unless we personally experience them (a la Sandy with Vusi). An even bigger problem emerges once we have defined these categories within our own minds, because once its there its not likely to change (possible because its an acknowlegement that we were wrong). Ask yourself this, take a generalisation about something you have and then determine what it would really take for you to change your opinion of it. If you believe that Afrikaaners are racist brandy and coke swilling arseholes, what would it take for you to change your mind? One Afrikaaner who shatters the mold? 10, 100 a million??? Cnaces are, nothing will change it. So in summary, the only way we are ever likely to change our perceptions would be to (1) experience individuals and not groups and (b) consciously be aware of the need to not categorise (something which is exceptionally hard to do).
Quote from: SandyB on August 27, 2008, 10:20:11 AM
Is this a Kiss and make it up session Paula ?? east west north south black white .. or just an excuse to party and celebrate life ?? Paula which outfit ? your old wild west cathouse madam outfit ? I think its quite sassy .. looked damm good on you last time ..
@ Georg words well put ... input appreciated ...
ha ha you can take your pick SandyB on the outfit you want.
Politics and religion when discussed can sometimes get heated up, thought we could all do with a breather and a laugh.
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Geez Paul!
Fantastic talk. I see you're on your way. Wish I could express myself that way in English. I'm learning.
@ Paul bravo
Very good! And like Georg said - wish I could express my thoughts as good as you and Sandy! Anyway, very good read, please do it more often!
Sorry for delay .. had to run home .. pup managed to set of burglar alarm ..
Mmm I think everybodys been very civilised on this topic .. healthy exchange of opinion .. no offences taken etc .. but yes any reason for a get together to have a really good look for the good in each other hey ?
CHEERS ... drinking-41 .. Paula I know how much you like that outfit so I'll allow you to wear it for this get together Ok ?? Ill wear my cudlly kitty outfit cat3
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ok, women(1)
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With reference to Jnr comment using the word like a penulum that swings back and forth .. In the news today .. Govt to review BEE and AA policy cos its doing damage to the economy vis loss of skills etc ..
My opinion firstly all " freeborn children " ( those born after the change of power) should be treated equally as far as opportunity goes .. any BEE share deal should include all employees .. i mean how loyal would you feel if only the ' previously diasadvantaged " got shares ??/ as has happened with some companies .. latest being if i remember correctly Vodacom ?? indeed a flawed philosophy .. well if i had a contract with them i would cancel .. anyhow a story .. our company went through BEE buyout 2 years ago .. our directors had management contract for two years to ensure smooth transition .. Tessa our bosslady has a structured deal via her own personal wealth and a womens empowerment consortium that has something 5000 black women benefitting by it .. she knows only too well that she as CEO has a financial responsibility to those others that through the consortium helped back the deal .. we are Now a fully BEE compliant .. Tessa as head .. but guess the structure of the new management .?? . GM - Afrikaans male ... Financial manager - afrikaans male .. sales manager - afrikaans male .. HR -- white jewish woman .. factory manager - white english male ....Middle management team -- total 6 ... split equal white / coloured .. furtherdown the line most foreman and superisory positions coloured or black ... Artisans equal split ..
In one of our after hour drinks dinner occasions she was quite blunt , saying .. " I have a responsibility to the shareholders and each employee of this company to ensure the financial success and stability of this company and i dont give a damm who i hire pink cream brown black green so long as they competent , I cant be playing the numbers game .. and if anyone on the board has anything to say I will tell them to take a long hike " -- " the team I have is competent and will make it work .. long term yes we must grow new talent , but if it is not forthcoming or wont take the pain of responsibility then I stand by my new team " and she devising a new incentive scheme to give all employees a better sense of ownership ...
Oky. I found out what BEE means.
Bu what's AA (other than Autom. Assoc. or Annonymous Alcoholics) hihi and CEO mean?
AA affrimative action ... CEO chief executive officer ...
Thanks Sandy.
To add to this I'll use quotes from other people
as Paul said
Everyone is a prisoner of their own experience no one can eliminate prejudices - just recognize them - Edward Murrow
Hate no one - hate their vices - Branard
As Sandy said
All men are equal it is not birth but virtue that makes the difference - Voltaire
We hate some people because we do not know them and we will not know them because we hate them - Coltron
As Cherry said
Never try to reason the prejudice out of a man it was not reasoned into him and cannot be reasoned out
Sometimes when we are generous in small barely detectable ways it can change someones life forever
Compassion is the basis of all morality
That is my 5c
A nice 5c lucky packet of worthwhile quotes .
Compassion is the basis of all morality ... best one ..
Must agree with you there Sandy.
By the way. Did you notice Barbs bid casualy rising from the general 2c to 5c... lol
Yes compassion the greatest virtue
Smile.......it works.
MY 10c worth
Aah yes the power of the smile .. takes me back to my mums expression .. she kept her good looks to a good age despite being in earlier years the party girl see .. what our parents got up to topic ... I note not many comments on that .. come now .. theres one or two interesting observations i made .. and more so .. anyhow she always told me .. " my boy never frown .. always smile . and moisturise , moisturise .. "
Here's how I moisturise faceinfood
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sorriso2 no , no , potions, potions .. thats what me Mum used ... no good passing out in the plate of food thats to feed the stomach not the face .. although if it was a good pasta sauce .. then the olive oil and tomato should help do the trick ...
Paul you summed it up perfectly. I do generalise and no you shouldn't, but as you said, it is difficult not to. I know not all black people are bad and not all white people are good. I have met some fantastic black people but like I said, they are few and far between. You just need to be hijacked or robbed etc, and you will see how your hidden racist feelings come to the fore. I don't know why, but I have just gotten to the point in my life where at the cost of offending others and becoming unpopular, I have to call a spade a spade. We don't just categorise blacks, we do this with everyone. I am totally against apartheid and wish it had never happened. I believe in treating everyone with respect but I am guilty of thinking badly of most blacks and I blame it not on my upbringing or my marriage but on them. I think due to our inherent propensity to categorise, most people are guilty of racism, they just don't admit it to themselves and certainly not to others.
Good honest words Florrie .. and yes the deep down in our souls , we dont all know what we gonna think till something hits , by admitting ones humanity and our tendency to categorise you are then an aware soul ..
Yes this subject could have gotten sticky but actually did not as we all stated points of view and engaged in healthy debate and above all were not judgemental ...
What is good and what is bad?
We tend to feel, that things that are different to our ways and beliefs are bad. That's where racism often starts. It's not just a matter of black and white. It even goes as far as between man and woman. That's why I once stated (English) one should always question the racist in one self, before pointing out another. (public chat with Kenny alias DD)
Georg you are spot on. A good example is why woman complain about men leaving the toilet seat up. Men should be complaining about woman always leaving it down. I agree that some behaviour we dislike because it doesn't fit in with our expectations. Thank you for putting out the little fires I tend to start.
Little Fires .. I would not call it that , you have not irritated anyone .. you gave a frank and candid viewpoint Florrie .. Like you said as well the fact that these feelings make you feel guilty , nothing to feel guilty about , you have a fine conscience and as a result have an inner battle when you feel that way ...
A true racist or bigot has no bad feelings about discriminating on what ever grounds and in fact feels very justified in their actions and thoughts ..
The comments on the garry article showing for eg mozambique and its decline ,, it irks any decent human being .. and yes we are free to comment on it as yes those happenings seem to be a sad repeating norm , and yes an inconvenient truth that smacks us in the face and riles the perpertrators when its pointed out to them .. thats life , whats important is we try not to let those sort of things rock our lives , we as wise beings should carry on with our lives aiming for the best and trying to be an example ..
Thanks Sandy.
Morning Florrie .. Brr its cold and ifffy here stormy weather .. hope i got the perspective right there .. sometimes difficult to put the right context in to a thing .. pan(1)
Hi Sandy, don't worry, you really have a way with words and I always feel good after reading your posts.
D I T T O 23_11_61
:emot112_2: I agree..... Sandy has a way with words, i just hope that Fanie does not screw up his bookings for November , otherwise I reckon I might hear more of his ways with words....... swink
Quote from: Michael Alexander on August 31, 2008, 01:59:29 PM
:emot112_2: I agree..... Sandy has a way with words, i just hope that Fanie does not screw up his bookings for November , otherwise I reckon I might hear more of his ways with words....... swink
You mean he wont feel good ??
laughpoint Lets just say..... a boertjie with a spattering of Argentinian Passion...... Snot and Trane..... and lotsa drink!
bar(1)
In order to avoid the kind of scenario you describe .. strap him into a chair in front of his PC .. guide his fingers to the right keys to commit it in writing ..
Easier said than done..... when his son left and emigrated for Port Alfred in the Eastern Cape, the IT communications dept of his business shut down........ I hear my sister in law had a passionate problem with his restaurant billing on Friday night.....but I will leave that to Paul to explain.... msn emoticon (9)
Just as i finished posting . i had this wicked play on words run through my mind .. the topic subject .. i will modify a bit ...
THERE IS FUTURE HOPE OUT THERE THAT SANDY AND BEV WILL HAVE A PLACE TO STAY AT FOR THE REUNION ... cat3
I hear my sister in law had a passionate problem with his restaurant billing on Friday night.....but I will leave that to Paul to explain....
Ouch !! a passionate problem .. sounds like he needs to get help in ...
I'm gonna have to ask you to be the middleman .. get banking details and costs per night .. so that I can at least get this sewn up .. pls
Sandy, Boet! ... no matter what happens...you guys will have a bed to sleep in....... worry not....this is oMund.... beds a plenty... jusy gotta find 'em :ciupa1: