secret(1) anyone remember the old second world war army tanks that were in the scrap yard ? all us kids used to play in them at the weekends as it was a bit out of town ! there used to be old railway carraiges as well ,I remember the day my boetie and I set them on fire by accident of course and being chased down one of the main roads by some one in a bakkie and when he caught us we gave him false names and my dad only finding out years later :wow1:
wow, was this in the scrapyard to the south of town?
Mmm I remember a story about those carriages burning ... well we all had our fair share of disasters with fire , paint etc as O'mund kids ... nearly caused house fire on more than one occasion ...I seem to remember my Dad had a bit of inside info on those carriages burning but remained Mum .. he had empathy for naughty boy antics and would not be the cause of parents getting into trouble or losing jobs ( which could have happened ) cos of kids antics .... looking back in retrospect he was a cool old man ...
msn emoticon (12)Kid and matches seemed to be the in thing at the time !part of life ,one of the many things we got up to as kids ,if my son today went near a box of matches or a lighter I would throttle him ha ha and he`s twelve !
Hi3 Billy
I don't know were the scrap heap was in your days there, but I remember the tanks they had out at Central Fields.
Think they were British and Americans Sherman or Lee/Grant tanks, that were used in North Africa, that's what I was told.
Remember using the armored plating from these to line some of the equipment we made in the Boiler shop, that was in the late 60s early 70s.
They were kept at Central Fields now that was a few klms from town so you are saying they moved them (or they moved the scrap yard) closer to town.
Play park at the east end of 38 avenue had a Sherman tank parked there for the kids to play on. The Linikers, Zandhuises, Carrs, Griffith-Richards and others will probably remember it.
@ Gordon - 38 avenue?
I'm also struggling to remember where the tanks were. I remember he ones at the moths, but I know we played on some tanks when I was small, but simply cannot remember where they were parked. Maybe one of our new members, Janet (Carr), can comment?
are-you-there
Yup Frank ... central fields .. the carriages and the tanks .. Bertie , the tanks most accesible and most likely you played in / on were the ones at the Moth garden of rememberance ..
Humble apologies Bertie. Meant 9th avenue. We stayed at E38-9th Avenue.
Kind regards
gordon
There are photo's some where on this forum of the tank in the park.....but like hell can I find it now.
@ Gordon - msn emoticon (8) I just thought there was a whole part of Oranjemund I never saw! swink
@ Diana - I also know about the photo but also couldn't find it....
From "Diamond Beaches"
After the 2nd World War an ingenious idea of converting old Sherman tanks to tractors to cart the overburden was implemented in the mines. This idea worked extremely well and the mules, that had been used up until then were duly replaced! The tanks were later converted into stackers used in conjunction with small bucket excavators to remove loose sand overburden.
One of the early pioneers, Bill Mitchell, recounts the following story which shows particular ingenuity..........."Whilst in charge of the maintenance of thirteen Sherman tanks and carryalls at the Mining area of 100G and through a misunderstanding between the Prospecting Superintendant and the Central Fields workshop I was left to my own resources to make my own way back to town. As it was late in the afternoon and too far to work through the heavy sand after a hard day's work, I unhitched the carryall from the Sherman tank and transported those left behind, into the residential area. I lived in a small flat between the present AAC guest house and the local mess, and my very noisy arrival was greeted with amusement by some and consternation by others. Needless to say I was not commended for my ingenuity nor was I ever left behind again!"
We only had one tank in the park in 11th ave East. I don't remember others. THAT tank was...very private inside.
No one has mentioned those at the Shell hole
Indeedy do so ... read further up .. how you Clive ??
Yup Frank ... central fields .. the carriages and the tanks .. Bertie , the tanks most accesible and most likely you played in / on were the ones at the Moth garden of rememberance ..
Ah, Janet you're right. It's coming back to me, I thought it was to the east of town! So I wasn't dreaming!
Sandy I do remember the Moths tanks, but the one Janet is talking about was different.
The tank east section of town between 9th and 11th ave still there, and the moths tanks also on the side of the hockey field (old soccer club and field)
Those tanks were mainly Shermans. The Eighth Army when it was fighting the Afrika Corps under Rommel couldn't wait to get rid of them. They were death traps. The Afrika Corps called them Tommycookers - one hit and they burned like a torch.
I first came across them at Central Fields when CDM picked up a clutch of tanks from the Army which had been in storage for yonks. My job was to fit the tank with electrics so that they could be turned into stackers for the bucket excavators.
First the tank had to be stripped of its gear. Amazing how much lethal stuff the Army left there. One sparkie I knew came across a half belt of what looked like 50 calibre which he proceeded to fire off by jamming each cartridge in a vice and hitting the impact end with a hammer. Spectacular! The first shot ripped a massive hole in the workshop roof. After that he moved out into the open with a portable vice and riddled the vegetation with the ammo that Montgomery's finest omitted to fire at the Afrika Corp.
Each tank also had very elegant petrol driven charging units used presumably to charge the tank batteries. They were high priority when tank stripping and were usually the first item to disappear. God knows why as the entire town was behind the security wire in those days and no-one had their own car at home. I never did figure out what the new owners did with them. I remember Brian Shepherd, then a foreman at North Electrical, triumphantly carrying one away but then he had a good reason. He had actually fought in Shermans in North Africa and had fond memories of his mates in those days. Doubtless he took it home for nostalgia sake. Today I imagine all those charging units are all dumped somewhere south of town as it was impossible to remove anything from the mine once it had entered. This applied even to much loved household items too large for the X-ray system, giving rise to many tearful farewells as those leaving could take only personal possessions. My favourite radiogram (who would even known what such a thing was today, then it was state of the art) and various other items had to be sold off at fire sales prices.
And on that score, people did in fact pimp their houses even though they knew they could take away very little. Mine (then 9/1st Avenue, though I hear the numbering has changed) was surrounded by three metre high hedges of quince which gave large crops of fruit every year, it also had vines from which wine and, dare I say it, even my own version of witblitz was made. On the Second Avenue side it had the town's largest and most spectacular Jacaranda tree when in flower, imported from Starke-Ayres in Cape Town and planted with ceremony one sunny Sunday morning. Apart from the usual lawn, flower beds and concrete pathways the house also had a fully fitted garden toolshed with all electrics, bench and vice, a little Rotunda for afternoon teas at weekends, customised lighting not to mention wall to wall carpet and non-CDM furniture, and a jungle gym, roundabout and swing for the kids - much of it the result of 14 years of weekend work. And that was hard won, considering we worked a standard 48 hour six-day week in the early years, plus an expected 100 hours overtime a month.
Should add that my house was by no means the most well-pimped. Most of the expats excelled at customising their dwellings, some even to the extent of altering internal walls. Some even paid for French windows in the lounge opening out onto a verandah. There must surely be some examples of that still around.
But we were talking of the Shermans. For the sparkies, refitting the tanks consisted of installing a 60 horse squirrel cage motor and switchgear, and a small solenoid operated hydraulic brake system that acted on the drive shaft. All driven from a single external wheel system mounted on one side of the tank plus emergency stops on both sides. the wheel accessed single and double track drive as required so that the tank could be steered. The very effective braking unit operated on the dead man system i.e if the operator's hand was removed from the control wheel the tank stopped. It was virtually idiot-proof and I never recall even the most raw recruit ever making a mistake with that system.
While all that was going on the fitters mounted a swivelling conveyor belt stacking system on top. The whole was designed in-house, creating a very economical way of equipping the mines in the postwar years when imported machinery was impossible to access. No idea who the brain was behind it but he certainly deserved kudos. Most things were done on that basis in those days. I recall resurrecting ancient Siemens Schucker AC motors with brush rings and lead bearings and putting them into service when all else failed. I think most sparkies today would look askance if asked to pour a lead bearing, scrape it to tolerance and refit it to a motor that dated back to the days of Augustus Stauch. There must be dozens of them still lying around in the desert, particularly in G area.
These tanks were still in use as stackers when I left in '67 so they must have been scrapped later than that. We also had a few DUKWs for transport, forgotten what the initials stood, for they were used as amphibian troop carriers during the war. The Transport Department ripped off the ampihibian sides and removed the propellors, leaving us with very useful truck type vehicles that handled the sand well. I last saw one in the scrapyard at Central Fields.
Regards,
Bob.
Bob , as per usual, great words..... the question begs to be asked, Now that Malcolm has written and published the tales of Affenrucken, when Sir, are you going to put your skills and memory to paper and write the tales of the Oranjemund Days?
msn emoticon (9)
@ MICHAEL I know there was a topic called The Tank Park or something to that effect.There were photo's there that I wanted to link to this topic. Why can't I find it..I've typed all the relevent words into search but only this topic comes up. Do the topics get deleted after a period of time?
Nope, nothing gets deleted.... here is the link to the topic...
http://www.oranjemundonline.com/Forum/index.php?topic=25.0
When doing a search on the entire forum, make sure you are back at the main forum board, otherwise if you perform a search inside a board or topic, the results returned are only from that specific topic that you are currently viewing....
msn emoticon (9)
hammer
Thanks
Mike's point re Oranjemund history is well taken. Right now Gordon Dally (formerly Accounts Department circa late Fifties) is compiling his biography which includes a lengthy section on Oranjemund. He is aware of this site and will no doubt post his material when complete.
I'm happy to toss in the odd aside on various topics as they arise but there is little to match what has already been provided by authorities such as Gunter Machts.
However, I did send Mike a collection of A4-sized photocopies of material from a scrapbook dating from my Oranjemund days as a stringer (freelance writer). It went airmail. That was more than a month ago. As it obviously hasn't pitched up it was probably liberated en route, most likely Windhoek. Which is another way of saying your postal system is dire. The collection included a complete photocopy of a 1967 edition of the Newsletter. I almost included the original but thought better of it at the last moment.
Now I have to think of Plan B. I know, I know, I should scan and email but my scanner went phut recently and I've yet to replace it. Anyone likely to be in the Bay of Islands any time soon?
Note to Clive Symes: back in 2008 you posted a piece about a film of the tanks and mentioned you had a pic of Peter Bennet and your Dad taken in the Fifties. What chance of your posting that pic?" There were numerous films made in those days as most people had 8mm cine. CDM also made a 16mm film on the whole mine operation which must be in some official company archive somewhere. Perhaps Mike could make inquiries. They had numerous copies which could be borrowed. I took one to the UK while on leave one year to show to friends and family.
Peter was one of three riggers on the mine: George Lovett, Peter Bennet and Barry de Beer. They were major characters, highly skilled and very forthright buggers who carried out some very tricky heavy duty work for the company. I recalled they once posted a sign above their workshop next to North Electrical calling themselves "Roughit, Ruinit and Destroy Ltd". George, a former Royal Navy CPO, later lost an eye in a rigging accident and became Rec Club Manager under whose auspices Katies and Caseys bars were born.
He was a big, tough, nuggety guy who wore an eyepatch and could face down transgressors with such a stare from his single eye that few failed to instantly get back in line. There are many Lovett anecdotes from those days. Sadly all three of the Roughit, Ruinit and Destroy fraternity have gone to the great big rigging company in the sky. May they rig in peace.
Regards,
Bob.
It might have been mentioned in the topic.
Sorry to change the topic Bob, but did you and your son not build a land yacht in the 60s - a three wheeler pyramid shaped vehicle?
Did you not later join the Argus or Cape Times?
Another family of the 60s?
Hi Richard,
The land yacht! That sparks a few memories. Yes it was back in the early Sixties. My son Sinclair (or Sinx was called) and I built it from a pair of old bicycle frames and some pram wheels we found on the old dump south of town. It was a three-wheel design steered by a tiller fixed to the rear wheel. The sail was an old sheet. It worked very well and once Sinclair got the hang of sailing he zipped all over town. However I do remember it was a very unforgiving vehicle and tipped out the unwary at high speeds if they made a mistake in balancing or turned too quickly. There must have been a lot of kids lost acres of skin from knees and elbows. No idea what happened to it in the end. I think some kid inherited it after Sinx went to board at RBH in '65.
Regards,
Bob.
Sorry Richard,
Forgot to add: yes to your second question. I originally left Oranjemund to do post-graduate work in clinical psychology at UCT and later completed clinical training. That took some three years, during which I had to support the family with some income, achieved by working as a night reporter (the lowest form of animal life on a newspaper) at the Cape Times.
So for that period I went to varsity during the day and worked a full night shift on the newspaper. I slept at weekends. Not to be recommended unless you are very focused. I eventually ditched clin psych for journalism and spend 18 very happy years at the Times.
Regards,
Bob.
I remember going to the yacht club about 77 or 78 and up on the carpark, there were a few kids playing with one of those wind carts...... For some strange reason, I thing Craig Thornton was involved, but that was 30 years ago.....
Hi Bob Sandy & all,
I finally feel vindicated, somewhere else on the site I said I remember that inside some of the tanks (In the old reclaim yard) there were still Marking stating "First aid box" Drinking water etc. Some even had the place where shovels were clamped in place.
Of course there was als boxes of spare tracks & rollers before it was all sold as scrap.
Att: Bob Molloy, any feedback or update on the autobiography from Gordon Dally?
Hi Mike,
Haven't heard a peep from Gordon in yonks but the book must be complete by now. It is an autobiography and the Oranjemund section covers only the few years he was there in the Fifties and early Sixties.
I'll fire off an email and see what the situation is; he might be interested in posting just the Omund section.
What promises to be equally intriguing is Dr Brian La Trobe's biography which has a large section on his time as the company dentist during which he performed some ground-breaking operations. It includes anecdotes about well-known Omund characters such as Ronnie Jew, Ivan Morrow and Windy Dwyer. It should be completed within the next few months. I will twist his arm (though anybody who tackles a dentist's arm is an idiot) in the hope he will agree to post the chapters on Omund.
Regards,
Bob.
Hehehehe! Great stuff, be careful of our local online Dentist........
Thanks Bob, would begreat if we could have a few pages or paragraphs online......
Hi Bob
Hopefully you had as much fun with your land yacht as we did with ours at Affenrrucken. Except that it couldnt steer too well. . . . Thing damn near killed me. But still great fun.
Malcolm
Hi Bob! you mentioned the dentist there in town, and I can remember late 69 or 70 the dentists at that time had some disagreement with management and both of them packed their bags and left the township so we were without any dental care. Remember it well I had had a tooth removed before I left the UK but the dentist had butchered the job leaving the root still in. It was Scottish doctor that finished the job, we went into the dentists surgery and I remember all the trays had white sheets over them. I suppose to keep the dust off, anyway we found what he was looking for (I was crapping my pants) but after that experience visits to the dentist never bothered me,.............. msn emoticon (224) and no he did not take all my teeth out................ image04
Brian ls Trobe's material on Oranjemund is quite lengthy and may need to be posted in several chapters. His recall of being headhunted by CDM for the post and his first impressions of Omund are hilarious.
But more intriguing and I'm sure of great interest to Bertie is his account of setting up the first fulltime dental surgery in Omund. He offered a very high level of dental care, including maxillo-facial surgery. Most of you who were children in Oranjemund in the Sixties and early Seventies would have been treated by him. At least one of his cases was presented at an international medical conference in Paris as a world first. Indeed a man for all seasons, he was an avid poet and published several booklets including poems on Oranjemund.
He was also a great community activist and among other things was behind the setting up of the Mule Derby and the associated children's playground. After Oranjemund he served several terms as mayor of Grahamstown and went on to international fame as one of the first eco-activists in the waste management field.
Among other achievements he designed and built SA's first energy from Waste Project to produce electricity and developed a process to treat human waste by forced aeration composting. He also created processes to treat animal waste. and developed a patented waterless odorless sanitation system which is manufactured in South Africa and Ghana.
His work in this field attracted a swathe of awards including the very prestigious Gold Award for the best Innovation and Contribution to Health Care in Africa by the Organisation of African Union and World Intellectual Property Organisation, the Terra Nova award for Land
and the Intel Environment Award presented at the Tech Museum Awards held annually in Silicon Valley, California. His 'Enviro Loo' was one of 580 nominations representing 80 countries considered for the Tech Awards.
In his acceptance speech Brian explained that half the world's population – some 3-billion people – did not have access to fresh water and sanitation. His invention is a dry sanitation system that requires no water, chemicals or electricity for its operation.
If anyone is interested in reading further on this aspect Google The Brian La Trobe Foundation for a backgrounder.
I'm still trying to twist his arm to get the Oranjemund material on the website. He's amenable to the idea but as you can imagine he is, even in his eighties, a very busy guy and may take some time to get around to it.
The only tanks I remember were in the grounds of the Moth hall. We lived in what was then the last house in town - 38th 13th Avenue and the rugby field was across the road and was surrounded by poplar trees. I was in Sub A in 1955 and Mrs Revington was my teacher, and she made a great job of teach us to read, write and do sums; I believe she lived a very long life. My brother Tony was born in April 1955 and is a journalist in Cape Town. My other brother Phillip died after falling off his bike and hitting his head - we had Sunday School in the afternoon in the (I think - remember I am 61!) Davies Hall. He was buried in Oranjemund. We also had our "socials" there when I was a teenager. Who is going to the Zonnebloem reunion in September? Gerry & I are definitely going.
Morning Pat ,, see list on the reunion board . ,, saw your name there ....Me will be there ...
Hello Sandy,I have a wee bit of useless information for you ,when I left Omund in 1973 ,being a member of Optima Lodge they had a wee farewell for me and they all signed a card ,your Dad could sign his name backwords and if you put it up to the mirror it was a perfect signature,amazing the practice to get that right. I still have that card somewhere but Im not going to try and find it today but will try and get it posted soon. John.
John thanks for that .. my Dad had the most beautiful handwriting ,,,, follow this link you will see two letters he wrote ,,,,
http://www.oranjemundonline.com/Forum/index.php?topic=544.0