NOT SUPPORTING " HATE SPEECH " BUT YES TODAY I GOT THIS ONE .. READ IT.. MANY INTERESTING POINTS .. HOW RELEVANT ?? ,, HOW MUCH IN THE REALITY OF WHATS HAS HAPPENED IN HISTORY AND WHAT WE SEE UNFOLDING IN FRONT OF US IN THE PRESENT ..?? I SEE LOTS OF VALIDITY AND RELEVANCE TO SO MANY OF THE SCENARIOS .. YOU AS INDIVIDUALS BE THE JUDGE ... I DELETED THE PASS ON BIT ... IT JUST DOES NOT AGREE WITH ME , I MAKE MY OWN JUDGEMENT CALL ON THE CONTENT ,, AND GIVE BLESSING AND SUPPORT TO THE PEACE LOVING MAJORITY , MAY WE KEEP OUR EYES OPEN ...
German View of Islam
This is by far the best explanation of the Muslim terrorist situation I
have ever read. His references to past history are accurate and clear. Not
long, easy to understand, and well worth the read. The author of this email
is said to be Dr. Emanuel Tanya, a well-known and well-respected
psychiatrist.
A German's View on Islam
A man, whose family was German aristocracy prior to World War II , owned a
number of large industries and estates. When asked how many German people
were true Nazis , the answer he gave can guide our attitude toward
fanaticism. 'Very few people were true Nazis,' he said, 'but many enjoyed
the return of German pride, and many more were too busy to care. I was one
of those who just thought the Nazis were a bunch of fools. So, the majority
just sat back and let it all happen. Then, before we knew it, they owned us,
and we had lost control, and the end of the world had come. My family lost
everything. I ended up in a concentration camp and the Allies destroyed my
factories.'
We are told again and again by 'experts' and 'talking heads' that Islam is
the religion of peace and that the vast majority of Muslims just want to
live in peace. Although this unqualified assertion may be true, it is
entirely irrelevant. It is meaningless fluff, meant to make us feel better,
and meant to somehow diminish the specter of fanatics rampaging across the
globe in the name of Islam.
The fact is that the fanatics rule Islam at this moment in history. It is
the fanatics who march. It is the fanatics who wage any one of 50 shooting
wars worldwide. It is the fanatics who systematically slaughter Christian or
tribal groups throughout Africa and are gradually taking over the entire
continent in an Islamic wave. It is the fanatics who bomb, behead, murder,
or honor-kill. It is the fanatics who take over mosque after mosque. It is
the fanatics who zealously spread the stoning and hanging of rape victims
and homosexuals. It is the fanatics who teach their young to kill and to
become suicide bombers .
The hard, quantifiable fact is that the peaceful majority, the ' silent
majority ,' is cowed and extraneous.
Communist Russia was comprised of Russians who just wanted to live in peace,
yet the Russian Communists were responsible for the murder of about 20
million people. The peaceful majority were irrelevant. China's huge
population was peaceful as well, but Chinese Communists managed to kill a
staggering 70 million people.
The average Japanese individual prior to World War II was not a warmongering
sadist. Yet, Japan murdered and slaughtered its way across South East Asia
in an orgy of killing that included the systematic murder of 12 million
Chinese civilians; most killed by sword, shovel, and bayonet.
And who can forget Rwanda , which collapsed into butchery. Could it not be
said that the majority of Rwandans were 'peace loving'?
History lessons are often incredibly simple and blunt, yet for all our
powers of reason, we often miss the most basic and uncomplicated of points:
Peace-loving Muslims have been made irrelevant by their silence.
Peace-loving Muslims will become our enemy if they don't speak up, because
like my friend from Germany, they will awaken one day and find that the
fanatics own them, and the end of their world will have begun. Peace-loving
Germans, Japanese, Chinese, Russians, Rwandans, Serbs , Afghans , Iraqis,
Palestinians, Somalis, Nigerians, Algerians , and many others have died
because the peaceful majority did not speak up until it was too late. As for
us who watch it all unfold, we must pay attention to the only group that
counts--the fanatics who threaten our way of life.
Hi Sandy,
I've lived a long time on this earth and by now I think I know a classic snow job when I see one. This one presses all our emotional buttons without a single reference or source to which we can refer to check its provenance.
I'd be grateful if you would post your source for this one.
Regards,
Bob.
Hi Bob ... methinks the universe was talking to me ,, the minute I was posting it sort of knew you would be there in a flash .... like said forget the snow job ... take the salient points ,, I believe in dont comb all under the same comb ,, yet people dumbing out when they can see whats in the serpents egg and developing in front of them .. history has a way of repeating itself ... we see it all the time .. for me . I post and ask for opinion a sort of challenge ... most do not climb on this bus excepting .. well you know ... .. I doubt the validity of the message yet take into account the salient points ... we all have opinion ... we in SA see one thing .. . somebody in UK will see another thing ... somebody in NZ will see another thing ... so it goes on ... I been meaning to PM you at some or other time , just got to gather my thoughts , but yes do read between the lines ... there is relevance to history and current ... and and again I say , normal peace loving folk .. do not dumb out ...
Hi Sandy,
I'm still waiting for you to supply a source for your material. Meantime, I've selected a quote from your post and added a comment.
"The specter (sic) of fanatics rampaging across the globe in the name of Islam." Hardly, I've never seen or personally experienced one, neither I'm sure are you nor anyone reading this website which would be a good chunk of the globe.
We could multiply that concept worldwide and find only isolated incidents such as 9/11, the short spate of airliner highjackings of the Sixties and Seventies, the Bali, London and Spanish bombings. Put those up against the following proclaimed terrorism organisations (just click on each link for a fuller picture). All are American Christian but for one which is American Jewish. They better fit the concept of rampage, having indeed been rampaging up and down the US, some for nigh on 50 years, have killed thousands and are still doing so, then ask yourself who doing the terrorising:
• 2.1 Animal Liberation Front
• 2.2 Army of God
• 2.3 Black Liberation Army
• 2.4 Jewish Defense League
• 2.5 Ku Klux Klan
• 2.6 Symbionese Liberation Army
• 2.7 Weathermen
• 3 Notable attacks associated with domestic terrorism
• 3.1 Bombing of Los Angeles Times building
• 3.2 Wall Street bombing
• 3.3 Unabomber attacks
• 3.4 Oklahoma City bombing
• 3.5 Centennial Olympic Park bombing
• 3.6 2001 anthrax attacks
• 3.7 Holocaust Memorial Museum shooting
Omigod, watch out, the Americans are coming. Oh, almost forgot, they are already here. They own you body and soul, and your country too, via the good offices of globalism and the corporate press. They also fill the internet with the kind of misinformation someone sent you. Your German aristocrat informant would have to be at least a hundred years old to have any prewar adult experience of what happened in Germany in the Thirties. He also demonstrably knows little about the causes of WW2 judging from his simplistic explanation of Nazi power-grabbing.
I could go on but I don't want to bore everybody to death here. Just a last word about suicide bombers: think of the picture the corporate press has given you of the typical Muslim fanatic who straps bombs around his chest and blows up innocent people, then take the following quiz.
http://lawrenceofcyberia.blogs.com/news/2006/12/the_seventy_two.html (via shareaholic.com)
Queries or comment welcomed.
Regards,
Bob.
Bob ,, I chose Lola and Norma as the most likely suicide bombers and was correct acording to that link ... ... take note me not pro or con ... every nation and persuasion has its warts and bad parts , thats my take ... again i go back to the salient points , not combing all or anyone all under the same comb etc .. part of the whole thing ... the source is a many times passed on message , hence my deleting the pass it on bit ( that pees me off second to none ) ... I was however correct on the universe thing and knowing you would be there cannons blazing ... I remain with my strong stance of peaceful folk dumbing out ... again I repeat not many folk seem to have an opinion or can comment ... currently doing a bit of research and then will post a response ............... till then
Hi Sandy,
To help with your research, some more information on suicide bombers:
http://www.businessweek.com/bwdaily/dnflash/jul2005/nf2005076_7420_db056.htm (via shareaholic.com)
Regards,
Bob.
No doubt, that in some darkened obscure room under the pentagon, there is some Gov official now scouring this forum, due to the words suicide bomber appearing one their screens, wonder what the chances are he might have an Oranjemund connection.....
image21 image201
ape
Nothing to fear but fear itself!!...................the human race has had this problem a long long time....................Michael!!.... thanks for that comment about the Yanks.......keep getting these weired sensations that there is some one behind me image071 image04
Perhaps the Pentagon doesn't read the right sources. Here's a piece for them to get their teeth into.
Regards,
Bob.
WHAT MAKES SUICIDE BOMBERS TICK? (Doubtless no pun intended).
Research by Professor Robert Pape of the University of Chicago, published in 2005 in Dying to Win provides the first data-based analysis of suicide bombers. He found most westerners have misleading views of suicide bombers and how to combat them.
PREVAILING MISCONCEPTIONS. There's a connection between September 11 and the war in Iraq, radical Islamic fundamentalists are behind all of the suicide bombings in Iraq and they're spurring insurgencies throughout the Islamic Crescent.
Reality: US government studies of intelligence failures and Pape's analysis indicate there's no evidence that any of this is true.
About the only point Pape agrees with is that the bombers want to drive the U.S. out of the region. But he argues that American policies to combat the terrorists are wrong-headed. "The presumed connection between suicide terrorism and Islamic fundamentalism is misleading and may be encouraging domestic and foreign policies likely to worsen America's situation and to harm many Muslims needlessly," he writes. Here's a summary of his analysis, which is based on the 315 suicide terrorist attacks from 1980 until recently.
Sri Lanka's Tamil Tigers, a Marxist-Leninist Hindu group opposed to religion, committed the largest number of suicide attacks, 76. The Kurdish PKK, which used the tactic 14 times, is headed by a secular Marxist-Leninist, Abdulah Ocalan. The Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine, another Marxist-Leninist group, and the al-Aqsa Brigade, which has ties to the socialist Fatah movement, account for a third of the attacks against Israel. Communist and socialist groups account for 75% of the attacks in Lebanon. Islamic fundamentalists, he concludes, were associated with about only half of the attacks from 1980 to 2003. And such fundamentalist Islamic countries as Iran and Sudan aren't producing any suicide bombers.
CLEARING THE PENINSULA. Pape argues that the common denominator among the bombers in 95% of the cases is that they're nationalist insurgents with a secular, strategic goal: ousting the military forces of democratic countries from land the insurgents believe is theirs. The suicide attackers, who account for about 5% of all such incidents but about 75% of all fatalities, believe their lands and way of life are threatened. The religions of the occupier and the insurgents invariably are different, Pape notes, but he contends that difference is merely a useful recruiting tool and isn't at the root of the animosity.
Al Qaeda fits this pattern. Osama bin Laden's opposition to the House of Saud stemmed from its decision to allow U.S. troops on Saudi soil. Bin Laden's goal is not simply to kick the U.S. out of Saudi Arabia, a country that's a Western construct, but rather from the Arabian Peninsula, which arguably stretches as far north as Iraq and includes Kuwait, Bahrain, and other countries in the region where the U.S. has troops.
Almost every suicide attack is aimed at a democracy, from the Tamil Tigers targeting Sri Lanka to Kashmir strikes against India. That's because the insurgents view democracies as vulnerable to this pressure. In fact, governments have made concessions in 7 of 13 completed campaigns (5 are ongoing). Not bad odds.
FEEDING THE ENEMY. The mere presence of foreign troops is the instigation for the attacks, so lengthy stays to secure democracy actually make attacks more probable and help boost recruitment. Pape notes that arrests of al Qaeda and other insurgent leaders are rising but the tally that counts is the number of attacks and they're rising, too. That suggests al Qaeda is growing stronger, not weaker.
Yet there are some encouraging signs. Pape points to the sharp decline in attacks in Israel when it left southern Lebanon. The insurgents need public support to survive and if the goal of getting the enemy out is achieved support for such tactics evaporates.
Pape argument is based on factual data. The information shows that while Washington was operating on the assumption that the suicide terrorists were all poor the opposite was true. In fact of young Islamic radicals involved in such cases 42% had post-secondary educations and they were part of concerted campaigns with coherent goals.
FACT AND FANCY. The Kurds, for example, didn't use suicide tactics against Iraq but did use them against Turkey. Fanatics would have attacked both, but rational strategists recognized that the chance of success was better in a democracy than in an autocratic state. What's more, Fatah, a socialist group, used the tactic before Hamas, a more religious-oriented organization, was even created, says Pape.
MORAL: if all western nations got out of the Middle East and stopped supporting forcibly imposed regimes, terrorist attacks worldwide would reduce dramatically, economies which produced goods instead of weapons would boom, employment would rise, security needs at airports diminish and governments could concentrate on ensuring their people have housing, education, employment, three squares a day and domestic security to enjoy it.
In conclusion..... if you give a human the right education from a young age..... he will follow....
are-you-there
Sorry!!!! don't believe that we get out of other peoples lands that it will solve the problems...... 6 billion people and half of them are trying to brain the other half,........... from the time we were conscious we have been bashing one an other ...2001: A Space Odyssey I recon if there is intelligent life in this universe... well it ain't here..........mind that's not including all the people on this site........Phew!!..... anyway an incident happened today where I stopped the car because I was turning left and a learner driver was holding up the traffic on the other side of the intersection, so instead of waiting the drivers behind her were pulling around her subsequently blocking my exit. The cretin 'Oops' Young gentleman behind me became frustrated gave me the finger and pulled up along side me (had to be restrained from getting out) I waited till the ranting had stopped, then asked him if he was employed..................told him there was a job were 74 virgins were involved... he took off with the address of the local mosque.
Look on the lighter side Sandy!! Bob! in Australia there is a saying "The Price of Liberty is Eternal Vigilance".......................... 16_1_231........... image04
Frank ,, this is a tricky path for me ... it seems the pro / con very active and curently I dont have mental energy ... i still state the salient points are being missed . vis the passive dumbing out , I have yet to pull together a very good response ... and has Bob has said before to my responses .. they are heartfelt .. thats my truth ... I will do him the honour of doing it in a PM and the he has the choice of publishing it on site .. I will always endeavour not to ambush somebody o the site ( been there and learnt my lesson ) so watch this space .... one wrong does not justify the next wrong ... da da da //// watch this space ...
Oh Lord will read this another time can't think now....Shiraz brain. drinking-41
On reflection you right Frank ... the price of Liberty .... no good munching on this one ...
Quote from: Diana Rudd (Boehme) on January 29, 2010, 07:58:16 PM
Oh Lord will read this another time can't think now....Shiraz brain. drinking-41
Oh! Deary me.... You see, that is exactly how these religious wars start...... Did you just use the almighty's name in a non religious environment? Time it start Jihad against the La Table Viewer Clan....... To Arms Brethren......
(There goes that guy in the pentagon, searching the site now, all because I mentioned Jihad..."
ha ha
Mmm .. oh Dear ... getting the feeling someone watching me from my PC screen ....
@Sandy, Frank, Mike et al,
The price of liberty is indeed eternal vigilance. That means being fully informed before you go to war.
There is a "so-what" feel about statements posted on this topic i.e. it's boring, it's been going on forever, we can't change it etc etc. The reality is that it affects you and yours vitally. If you are a parent you have already given hostages to fortune in the form of your children. It isn't the power elite who are coming home in body bags, it is our own sons and daughters we offer up for cannon fodder, whether this be to so-called 'terrorist" action or actual military service, not to mention the waste of treasure that goes with the spilling of blood. In short, it impoverishes all of us and it behoves us to do something.
And we can. We can start by informing ourselves of the real issues. Begin by Googling the BBC documentary "The Power of Nightmares", either to download or watch online. Brace yourself for some eye-opening truths about our media and our politicians; more importantly, how they manipulate you
We, the West, have been rampaging around the Middle East since Britain destroyed the Turkish empire in 1917. First it was driven by the British oil companies, then the American oil companies and now it is powered by an agenda aimed at smashing all Arab resistance to western hegemony.
For that reason we were softened up by our own media to accept a destruction of first Afghanistan and then Iraq. Now it is Iran with an alleged nuclear power capability and next in the firing line is Yemen.
As for why "they hate us", the answer is that is simple: there hasn't been an Arab army occupying a western country for more than 400 years yet it is we who are destroying their land, wrecking their cultures and killing their children. Why wouldn't they hate us? Wouldn't you in their shoes? Why don't we just stay at home and look after our own homeless and hungry people instead of creating legions of them in other people's countries?
Take a look at this link:
http://walt.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2009/11/30/why_they_hate_us_ii_how_many_muslims_has_the_us_killed_in_the_past_30_years
Regards,
Bob.
Bob had a look at your link!! and as I thought it was an 'EXPERT' (Stephen M. Walt is the Robert and Renée Belfer professor of international relations at Harvard University) who reflected these figures, err are these not the EXPERTS that get us into these situations. We were at one time considered cannon fodder, but in today's light of enlightenment and technology we can discuss issue's on forums just like this, and the many thousands around on the Internet, the powers that are there will take note.
Remember the Vietnam war stopped because people power overrode the EXPERTS and they did not have anything like the tools (Internet) we have today, plenty of body bags. Some of these countries that are talked about are the richest countries in the world they have amassed their wealth from Oil have they opened up their coffers and invested in their countries infrastructure schools, hospitals, law and order, social security............no I think why they hate the West is they see the life that we are privileged to have.
We are made out to be decadent and evil, because some religious fanatics has the power to brain wash a hand full, there is no way in the ******* world would I blow myself up......... for how many virgins. I know a few Muslims as well as Jewish, Hindu, Buddhists, 'etc' oh and Christians and they are not about to cut my head off or (well not until I pend this) blow the S*** out of me.
When disasters hit who are the first in to give aid, shelter, food, and support, or is this another way of passive invasion and the West can pat itself on the back and say its has another foot hold in a country that dose not want us there. I think the Americans are waking up to the fact that they are not the most popular nation and they have been bombastic and high handed in their dealings with the east.
Australians killed in quake crash
Ethnic Chinese mourners in Gunung Sitoli
Nias bore the brunt of Monday night's earthquake
Nine Australian military personnel were killed when their helicopter crashed during relief operations on the quake-hit Indonesian island of Nias.
Bob hope we can discus this further my opinion differs slightly from yours!! and I know am going off like a pork chop (sorry no offence to anyone religious or otherwise) we seem to be in the same age group and years seem to mellow oneself. I have sons whom I do not wish to see them have to go off and fight for some buracrated Expert.....Regards ...Frank
As noticed I have ducked out of this one ... one can pull up so many differing opinions from the internet , however will add final comment ... from the original article , may have been a badly constructed snow job but yes did a bit search ,,, Russia ,, Communist China the Japanese , Rwanda etc the peaceful folk sat back and allowed a crazy minority to take over .. Thats proven history ,,, thats fact so despite the articles faults it carries a message that I'm sure none of us can deny .. and leave it there ... I dont need the back and forth cut and thrust of expert atricles drawn from internet ... be vigilant thats all ...
Hi Frank,
Your point about "experts". Sorry to disagree, it was the experts who kept advising us against such ventures as the Afghanistan and Iraq war (note the Iraq inquiry currently ongoing in the UK where the odious Blair has just squirmed his way out of a jail sentence despite his former Attorney General testifying that he had STRONGLY advised him against it).
The IAEA (International Atomic Energy Agency) is filled with experts. They have repeatedly told us that Iran has no nuclear weapons and no programme to make them, yet our press keeps beating the war drums. That's where the body bags and the suicide bombers will come from next.
The latest is Yemen where, guess what, the "intelligence" agencies have found a terrorist plot. So they sent in drone missiles to assassinate some target or other, killing several dozen civilians including children in the process.
And we object to a few Muslims marching in Bretton Wootton or wherever, protesting against this obscenity? What's wrong with our heads?
Can't say this often enough: the reality is that we have military forces over there creating terror day and daily. There are no Muslim armies over here - and never have been for over 400 years. What we are suffering is asymmetric warfare, the warfare of the poor who only have their frail bodies to offer in their country's eternal fight to throw off the yoke.
Security checks at airports and other travel points, no matter how sophisticated - and bloody irksome and expensive too - are just the ambulance at the bottom of the cliff. What we need is a fence at the top of the cliff to stop the accident happening.
That fence is called peace. You can't make peace with war nor can you fight for it. Fighting for peace is like f-king for virginity. It sounds good, it possibly even feels good, but by definition it cannot achieve the aim.
In short, let's get the hell out of other people's countries and let them rule themselves. There are other and more effective means of enforcing international law.
@Sandy,
"Crazy minorities" beat the crap out of all opposition e.g. the Russian Revolution (at one time half Europe had troops in there), the Spanish Civil War, the Chinese revolution which threw out the appallingly corrupt Chang Kai Shek and finally gave each Chinese child at least a bow of rice a day.
As for refusing to read "expert articles", would that include eminent historians? If so, where do we find "proven history".
We need constant input, day and daily, to keep ourselves informed. The Internet is a cornucopia, a veritable treasure house, of information both true and false. A news source that can't be censored. Such a situation has never existed before in history. We are the first generation to benefit.
Mankind has been cursed with ignorance since our first ancestor stood on his hind legs. Now, in this modern age, we have the tools to set ourselves free.
The problem is that it's easier to keep our heads in the sand, which is one way to remain a slave to our own prejudices. That's why the demagogues rule us. That's why our children die in useless wars. That's why so many of us are poor, not just in means but also in spirit, in aspiration, in loss of vision.
We can opt out of that. It take a bit of time away from the goggle box. It means opening our minds to new and sometimes scary ideas, but if we really want to improve things for the next generation instead of just passing on our own prejudices it's the only way.
Regards,
Bob.
@ Bob , its not about keeping ones head in the sand .. you are still missing the point , its about vigilance ...
Question , is a bowl of rice a day worth having ones freedom taken away under communist rule ??
In fact so many questions .. and yes scary new ideas .. and agreed the internet a valuable source ... experts ,, ?? history ... history can eaily be re written ,, look here in SA compared to 20 odd years ago the school history books have a toally different slant ,, the media can make history ,, just plug it enough .... the media can make one the most popular person on the planet ,, just promote the person enough to get a wave rolling .. the corect opnion is sometimes the one that makes the most noise or gets the most exposure or marketing call it what you may ... mmm enough here .. me also getting a sore head ,,,,
What about those millions of Chinese that actually starved after the revolution as the big Socialist farms came crashing down due to the lack of farmers(who had all been drafted into the factories, and the farming equipment that got melted down)........
Hello to you Bob Sandy!!
QUOTE !!
Your point about "experts". Sorry to disagree, it was the experts who kept advising us against such ventures as the Afghanistan and Iraq war (note the Iraq inquiry currently ongoing in the UK where the odious Blair has just squirmed his way out of a jail sentence despite his former Attorney General testifying that he had STRONGLY advised him against it).
It seems that they are all experts Bob I remember seeing a film in O/M it was called 'Oh! What a Lovely' War 1969 Directed by Richard Attenborough and I think at the time everyone thought it was a war film. There were still a lot of them going around, but this turned out to be a satirical musical about the first world war, and I think every one that saw it thought it was crap. It did win awards but the point I remember was that no one took the blame for the mess these people made and the million that died, and that I think was the point!! Experts in warfare.
I am using your quotes Bob........In short, let's get the hell out of other people's countries and let them rule themselves. There are other and more effective means of enforcing international law. Which country's are we talking about, Australia was taken about 200 years ago and I know the aboriginal people would dearly like to kick us all out, and what about New Zealand the Maori people would like to see the back end of colonist, the Indians in the US tried that Cyprus and Turkey the Greek's even South Africa.
You made the point Bob about........ Can't say this often enough: the reality is that we have military forces over there creating terror day and daily. There are no Muslim armies over here - and never have been for over 400 years. What we are suffering is asymmetric warfare, the warfare of the poor who only have their frail bodies to offer in their country's eternal fight to throw off the yoke.
As I said in my post these countries that we are talking about are some of the richest countries in the world, why is it that the elite pander to the few influential, and their own people are treated like s***
Saudi Arabia is the world's leading petroleum exporter. Petroleum exports fuel the Saudi economy.Oil accounts for more than 90 percent of exports and nearly 75 percent of government revenues, facilitating the creation of a welfare state, which the government has found difficult to fund during periods of low oil prices. Human rights groups such as Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch have repeatedly expressed concern about the state of human rights in Saudi Arabia.
Regards........................ Frank
Good stuff, guys. This is the real stuff of debate, of discussion. Keep it coming. I like to hear different ideas. And yes to "eternal vigilance", which really means keeping ourselves informed, including revisionist history.
Re post-colonial states and who is occupying whose country: after WW2 the newly formed UN by common agreement drew a line under previous history and all member states accepted the status quo. From that time on all national borders and their governments howsoever composed had legal status, i.e. recognized by international law. Since then of course we've had endless quarrelling within those borders largely because previous colonial powers had divided tribes and races, and worse still cobbled together the most unlikely combinations of each, yet by and large the status quo has held.
Re New Zealand: Maori and Pakeha (white colonists) signed a treaty in 1840 which gave each mutual sovereignty and forms the basis of the present state, a situation accepted by all. It is celebrated annually on Waitangi Day (today, February 6) which is the signal for a delightful day-long debate on, and celebration of, the treaty.
We live within a few kilometres of the original treaty signing place at Waitangi in the stunningly scenic Bay of Islands on the east coast of the North Island. The site is now a national monument. The day is celebrated nationally at designated centres around the country but the main focus is at Waitangi attended by politicians of all races from the Prime Minister down and various Maori chiefs and tribal groupings. There were just over 50,000 people there today. We were there almost at dawn and stayed 'til late enjoying the day-long argy bargy, music, song, dance, war canoes in full array and thunderous haka challenges. Again, as in previous years, it filled me with renewed faith in my fellow man and his (and for his read her) ability to reason a way past tribal and national disputes to better outcomes for all.
We hosted a couple of Namibian friends (who run conservation programmes in conjunction with the Damara) to a Waitangi Day celebration two years ago. They told me that for them it was an eye-opener in terms of peaceful acceptance of often widely disparate viewpoints.
So where am I on the political spectrum? I've moved back and forth across it several times in my life and am again on the move. To my chagrin I must admit I was once a convinced Friedmanite, a one-worlder, a free marketer, unashamed capitalist and believer in corporate globalism. Today such concepts make me want to throw up. The problem is that I can't conceive of practical alternatives that would keep us all adequately fed, housed and secure.
Communism is unworkable (Christ was the first communist and none of us are saintly enough to measure up to that standard), Bolshevism faked it for 70 years but fell apart in the end, Socialism smells of dreary similarity, Fascism ran its course in the 30s and early 40s, Capitalism causes boom and bust disasters, not to mention wars, and Democracy is the worst possible form of government but for all the others.
That leaves....oops, I'm hogging this thread. Must stop. Back to the drawing board - any suggestions?
Regards,
Bob.
My head stopped hurting .. debate does that .... Ok all .. keep emotions under control ... good things .. Bob admitting to human frailty ... frailty of systems ... me never been a comitted anything ,,, just someone who deep in soul dislikes injustice and prejudice , so can flick flack a bit ... sad fact is we are surrounded by prejudice and even unbeknown to us at times participate in it in some or other form , so none of us can take higher ground ... as for systems ,, Capitalism and democracy are still the only albeit still imperfect systems ... thats if voters are intelligent , put their emotions aside and evaluate and make those they voted into power accountable and ahve the right to remove them if they fail , the impossible being that those elected have enough integrity to step down if they f... up .... ,, Capitalism ie : work ,, earn ,, work hard succeed ,, always remember that there is always strata in society ... poor , middle class , rich , and of course by some curveball the obscenely wealthy ... just wherever you find yourself , always just try to be the best human being that you can be in that scenario and never succumb to greed , ego , look down on others , or become power hungry ... thats the killer of capitalism , democracy and human decency ... thats my very simplistc take on all
Hello Bob Sandy and anyone who is interested!! I do like a debate! and it can take you into all sorts of subjects and topics, this one started by Sandy can get a bit hair raising when we are talking about people and their land. What is forgotten !! this is one world! its only the seas that separate us we are all connected!......... and by talking and discussing these subjects, the world will become a better place.The Internet is the most powerful instrument we have, its not always right......... but you can sort the seed from the chaff.
As you say Bob.... Re New Zealand: Maori and Pakeha (white colonists) signed a treaty in 1840 which gave each mutual sovereignty and forms the basis of the present state, a situation accepted by all. It is celebrated annually on Waitangi Day (today, February 6) which is the signal for a delightful day-long debate on, and celebration of, the treaty.
It took a little longer for Australians to recognise these treaty's but again with debating and peaceful demonstrations they achieved their goal
In Australian history, the Aboriginal Land Rights (Northern Territory) Act established the basis upon which Aboriginal people in the Northern Territory could claim rights to land based on traditional occupation. The act, the first of the Aboriginal Land Rights Acts, was signed by the Governor-General of Australia 16 December 1976. It was the first Australian law which allowed a claim of title if claimants could provide evidence of their traditional association with land.
Suicide Bombings...................... This is a quote from the link below
The unpublished data show that since 1983, bombers in more than 50 groups from Argentina to Algeria, Croatia to China, and India to Indonesia have adapted car bombs to make explosive belts, vests, toys, motorcycles, bikes, boats, backpacks and false-pregnancy stomachs.
Of 1,840 incidents in the past 25 years, more than 86 percent have occurred since 2001, and the highest annual numbers have occurred in the past four years. The sources who provided the data to The Washington Post asked that they not be identified because of the sensitivity of the tallies.
From 1988 to 2008 I am not sure of the data here the Washington Post say 22.000 killed due to terrorism there is the link below.
http://au.wrs.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0KjqmhrV25L2OQATAs36At.;_ylu=X3oDMTExN2szY25nBHNlYwNzcgRwb3MDMQRjb2xvA3NwMQR2dGlkAwRsA1dTMQ--/SIG=1386mltga/EXP=1265608939/**http%3A//www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/04/17/AR2008041703595.html
Then when you lookat this data.
1.2 Million people killed each year on the roads........ that's 2.5 percents of deaths in the world!! and that's not counting the injured if this was a war..........1.2 million accidents............at what cost.
These below are the 5 Top causes of Death world wide
1.Heart Disease . In 2008, heart disease accounted for 30% of deaths worldwide, according to the World Health Organization (WHO)
2. Stroke According to data released in 2006 by TheHeart.org, there is reason to believe that stroke (a manifestation of vascular disease in the brain) might become the leading cause of death by the year 2030, and possibly the second leading cause in just a few years (after heart disease).
3. Cancer Whether you're looking at breast cancer, lung cancer or cervical cancer, most variations of this condition are among the leading causes of death worldwide. In a 2003 report, WHO noted that yearly global cancer rates could increase to 15 million by the year 2020.
4. HIV/AIDS According to the UNAIDS 2009 AIDS Epidemic Update, there were 31.3 million adults and 2.1 million children living with HIV (Human Immunodeficiency Virus) at the end of 2008.
5. Instances of Infant Mortality two million babies die within their first 24 hours each year worldwide.
Its a bit long winded but the comparison of deaths due to terrorism and that of the data above......... well will give it a rest I am still amazed at the road fatality's.............preventable deaths..........today is the anniversary of Australia's worst bush fires 173 people died in Victoria......... peace be with you all..............over to you Bob.