Oranjemund Online

I was doing a few scans of an Appie Year Book, thanks to Barend (Balletjies) Mathee, and thought I'd post a few snaps in here...

..and a pic of the 1st and 2nd years appies!

.... 3rd and 4th years....

... 2 more training officers, Stokkies ( anton) is still here, and funny enough was my training officer also.....way back then.....

..... and an advert just for the heck of it.....

.... and the council..... Martin is still in town, running Barlows!

Is this the local mafia, Michael? The boys look dangerous.

I think it is a case of ... they were the local mafia..... those of them , (very few) that still live and work here, are  more like me, over the hill, wife, kids, beer boep and long since left those Soprano days!


iknow

this is my Dad, (Harry Smith)(1972)

Nice Pics Mavis, Real Historical..... My dad always refers to the era prior to 1975, as the Old School..... when Appies were trained the right way......

:emot77:

Does this mean there's a left way, Michael?  bling1

Thanks Mavis,
Nice to see a picture of your Dad.
Mike Burgess / Terry Holland and quite a few of the othe appies often used to mouth words, without making a souns until your Dad turned up his hearing aid, then we would call out to each other, your Dad was always quick on adjusting the volume down.
Nowadays, its my turn to suffer for my sins, my hearing is bad, but not yet bad enough for a hearing-aid (although its getting there) just bad enough to get me into trouble when lots of people are around, talking together. ( I can end up saying yes when I should be saying No )

live hearing aside, saying yes when you meant no has always been a problem, for all generations.

Kids if you read this say NO

i have a real problem saying no...........i only ever say it if i really have to..........then i feel bad.........  arrowh

Thanks for the pictures Mike, my dad is D.Muir, he was a boilermaker training officer. Will show him his photo when I get back home, I'm sure he will be very proud, never stops speaking about those days.

I  remember your dad when I was an Appie, he never wore overalls, just a dustcoat.... I was in the electrical workshop, with Rick Paley at the time, then Stokkies took over the electrical side,

Yes, that's him. I have never seen him in overalls. When he was still working in the workshop, he only wore jeans, never overalls. He has Alzheimers and doesn't remember the latest but his mind is still very clear on his Oranjemund days.

I might be mistaken , but i think he was the least strict training officer there....

Ta  Mavis  ..  Good  pics  of  our  Uncle  Arry ....


                 Sandy

I'm not sure, he was very strict with us when he was sober. I had many hidings with a leather belt, and he was especially strict with my eldest sister, Diana. He has mellowed with age and now is a real softy. He stopped drinking in 1975 and has never had a drink since then.

hi everybody.i have gone through all the photos and did not see any of my oldman DON WILSON.he was at the tech for years.he was electrical.are there any appies that remember him.i recall a few months before he past away,he had most of the old folk in the home at lunch time sitting listening to him give a lecture.he still to his dieing days wanted to teach people what he believed was the right way(HIS WAY).regards WAYNE WILSON.

Yup  remember  your  dad  very  well  Wayne  he  taught  me  at  tech .. I  always remeber  the  Elcano  cigarellos  he used  to smoke   with  the  tarsaver  attached  as well ..  ..    We  stayed  across the road  from you in  11th  ave   as  well .. regards  .. Sandy Buchanan

Hey Wayne long time no hear boet. I remember a couple of us Boy Scouts being given a "guided tour/demo" of your Dad's pondok where he had all his radio ham stuff real cool for us youngsters. Also remember the Mercedes he used to drive with the huge aerial on the a*** end that was rumoured to light up a fluorescent tube if the tube was held close to it while the radio in the car was transmitting. When I started my apprenticeship in 1980 as a fitter & turner the instructors were as I can remember:
Head training officer Mike Benade
Your dad Don Wilson - Electrical
Fitting & Turning - John Irish
Diesel Mech - ? Wentzel followed shortly by Andre Botha
Boilermaking - ? Jacobs
Carpentry - ? Marais (training later discontinued)
Lekker Wayne catch you later

howsit lance
the last iheard john irish was atwestlake college as principal but think he has maybe passed on.
leon sumter at northlink college goodwood
fanie jakobs
norman marais

Hi Chris
Thanks for filling in the gaps. Have good memories of the Appie training school located on the mine close to 4 Plant (think it was the old loco shed). Also remember Frans Wentzel & John Irish catching fish on the last Friday of the month and us Appies having a lekker fish braai with their catch. Happy Days.

hi guys. I also taught at the appie school in town from 1979 to dec 1982 when I left for CT. Frikkie O'Connell also taught at the appie school circa 1981 to 1982/3?. He is Campus Manager of the Pinelands Campus of College of Cape Town. Saw him about a week ago and told him to join the OMD w/site. Franz Wentzel phoned me out of the blue about a week ago as well to enrol an employee for a welding course. I also told him to check out the OMD site, had a good catchup chat with him. He left ADE Atlantis about 13 years ago. Said that he had a get together with Kleinkie, Charlie, Clive and Jakes not so long ago.

Hi Leon
I remember Yourself, Frikkie and "Mof" Mostert as lecturers at the OMD Tech when I was still "nat agter die ore" as a new appie. Great times.

Quote from: Michael Alexander on December 30, 2007, 10:16:35 AM
I  remember your dad when I was an Appie, he never wore overalls, just a dustcoat.... I was in the electrical workshop, with Rick Paley at the time, then Stokkies took over the electrical side,

Mike good memory I don't remember half the stuff

Terry, Charlie and Leon 1971 in Appie School workshop.

oops sorry guys, in .jpg.
We tried hard to look intelligent, somehow I don't think we succeeded.

Hi Wayne
Here's a picture of your dad taken in 1981 at the Appie school. Enjoy.

For Wayne

Well there you have it... those were the days when you were still respected for your trade and you respected those who taught you no matter how 'diverse' their training methods were. The odd appie prank,  being sent from workshop to workshop to ask for a long weight or a skyhook. The occasional klap over the head for outright stupidity and tending your mentor's toolbox.
All the events and actions that taught us respect, discipline, neatness and an eye for detail accuracy.
DONT mention the appies of late... disrespectful, dissinterested, undisciplined and couldn't care less. They are now the protected specy and you dare try and enforce discipline on the job... it's an absolute shame, since these folk just drag the name of tradesmen through the gutters.

Now I feel better...

LONG LIVE THE TRADES viva CDM Appies!!!!

Beleive me when I say that it was a pleasure to present a SIMPLEX SKYHOOK to an artisan stupid enough to ask me for one.
Remember I started my apprentiship later than most & had worked in various other areas on the mine, aquiring some idea of what I was letting myself in for.

Yesterday while cleaning out the garage I came across the SIMPLEX SKYHOOK I kept in my toolbox for just such occasions ( will take a photo later to day and post the much maligned SKYHOOK)

Andrew you are right about the quality of some of the current artisans, I blame a lot of it on the fact that everyone looks on themselves as LEARNERS ( and blames things on the fact that I am only learning) for "FACTS" sake take some responsibility. Once qualified we all continue to learn, and get better at the work we do, if we have the right attitude towards gaining experience.
I have recently finnished commissioning a unit which realy "MISSED" me off.
Given a punch list, the "artisan" could'nt even ensude that all the pipe flanges were bolted up tight. Rubber gaskets were inserted in some places even when the punch list specified Klingerite. Signs which should have been stuck on were riveted ( and not even in a straight line) this was after having done 5 similar units where all the other signs were stuck on.

I can go on but it just gets my blood pressure up.


However looking on the good side, good artisans get to keep their jobs and move on to better things, its a pity that the average age of good artisans is rising.

Unfortunately what has happened over the last few years is that the large parastatals have cut down on their training. i.e reduced number of apprenticeships. Smaller companies specialise and therefore are not able to provide comprehensive training in all the aspects of any trade. Hence the introduction of 'learnerships', where we now have the 'learner (pronounced 'lenar') syndrome'. In addition companies that have the resources to provide apprenticeship training are also opting for 'learnerships' because of the '1 year only per level contractual obligation' between themselves the learner and the training provider (Technical College) instead of the 3 year contractual obligation of an apprenticeship. Learnerships have to a large extent failed to address the serious shortage of artisans. Learnerships are also totally bogged down with beaurocratic red tape and the actual trade training at the end of the exercise leaves a lot to be desired. There is thus recently a strong call from many parties to revert back to the old apprentiship system allbeit in a more structured fashion. The biggest disaster to hit the RSA is the (messed up) Outcomes Based Education (OBE) system introduced in 1998. We all wait with bated breath for the results of the current grade 12 results (1st OBE grade 12 learners). The ANC realise that there are some fundamental flaws with the (messed up) OBE system and are desparately looking at ways to fix up the mess and at the same time not lose face.
My rant for the day
Leon

PS When I look back at the training we received at CDM in the old days I realise how truly blessed we were.

I can only agree with you Leon.

Looks like we are singing from the same song book.

Having been involved with the training of draughtsmen, I fear we are in a similar situation there. Some years back Kenny Ramage and I visited The De Beers Drawing office and discowered the the average age of draughtsmen at the time was in the late 40's early 50's. Since then there has been an explosion in training facilities, unfortunatly producing mainly CAD operators and not draughtsmen.

With regards to the OBE system it always looked flawed to me.

I thing the ANC instead of wanting to save face, should start by solving the problem and getting todays kid the best education they can, even to the extent of reintroducing 5 year apprentiships for those 16 years and older, that are good with their hands. These youngsters could then do their NTC I  II  III during their training, while at the same time they would be off the streets & earning some money.

Thats my bitch for the day, Anyone else ??

Clive, the sad news is that the old N1 to N6 Certificate courses are being phased out as we speak. 2008 is the last year for N2, next year N3 goes, and so on until N6 is also gone.
In the place of the old N1, N2 Block Release System all Further Education Training (FET) Institutions (i.e. Technical Colleges) now offer a 3 year full time 7 subject National Certificate Vocation (NCV), very similar to the old trade school qualification except with a lot more workshop experience. School leavers with grade 9 Maths and Science feed into this new system. The idea behind the NCV program is that once a learner obtains the exit level qualification the learner goes into an internship and then supposedly does a trade test and then supposedly becomes an artisan, the emphasis on the word 'supposedly'.
That's my gripe for today. (rant, bitch, gripe we're running out of words here Clive)

Need some additional words:

Pontificate
Fume
Fustian
Babble
Harangue
Bluster
Bombast
Rave
tirade
Badger
Heckle


Hell we can even hound them about the new systems of training

very good Clive. Let's see what the Grade 12 results look like when they are released on the 31 December (Conveniently after Christmas)

Hi Leon & Co.
I would like to add my bit to the quality of "artisans??!!" today. We have helpers that have "helped" an artisan for a few years - goes for trade test and passes" Instant ARTISAN - what does that tell you? the quality of testing has obviously dropped dramatically. Remember the days when people had to go for a few attempts before passing (not because we were stupid - quality of testing being the reason). The quality of all trades has dropped and there is no sense of pride etc in their work they are only there to go through the motions and collect their pay, no commitment at all. We were very lucky at CDM - the quality of our training was good and we had a varied range of training - something that you do not see out here. A great pity as the trades are being taken over by incompetent and uncommited "artisans" that in the end give us all a bad name. This is all to make it easier for the others. My gripe for the day - Wishing you all a merry Christmas and all the best for 2009

Regards Gus

I have  the nightmare ..  me  from the electrical trade  , and yes our  training  was wide and varied  and very much to our  benefit ... been  in production management  for the last 24 years ..  and  to say the least a lot of the artisans that pass through  our  factory  just do not inspire confidence .. I find myself sometimes  lecturing and double checking them like a damm schoolmarm  cos i dont want a wrong  or  sloppy diagnosis of a  machine problem  or  some  piece of expensive machinery    wrecked . ( has happened before )   sure  one could say   well why not do it yourself  ( something i feel tempted to sometimes )  but then  what  they paid  for ? and  although me not afraid of getting hands dirty what  about me neglecting the duties that I'm paid for ??   so I find many a time I will be babysitting an  artisan through a problem ..  it  has its  rewards  sometimes .. cos if they absorb the logic of what  I'm passing on while doing the babysitting then  at  least they benefit long term ...
Frighteneing is the amount of  PLC , servo motor  control of machinery now .. and  good technicians to work on that  is a kind of hens teeth situation ... and they demand top dollar ... I have been  throwing the strong  suggesttion that  we  maybe  do the top dollar and make him  electrical  foreman ( a working one )
Aagh !  aagh !!  gnashing of teeth ...   where do we win ..??  too many of the the  young ones nowadays  want to either  become  nothing  or  hotshot  lawyers  or  financial  whizzkids  of the  dream world they see  no the box .. ..

it's a lot to do with the perception that there is no "bling" in being an artisan. Afterall who the hell wants to get their hands dirty or have to figure out and fix a complex piece of machinery costing hundreds of thousands, maybe millions of Rands under extreme pressure and no appreciation from the client.
Us guys are a breed fast becoming extinct.

Clive, Leon, Angus and Sandy... you've seen it and been there. Amazing how many sups feel like Sandy about the do-it-yourself bit, but sure, why DO they get the pay... the same goes for fellow artisans who have to carry the dregs; they don't get the balance of the other guy's wages for making up for his shortcomings.
As Leon puts it the young folk of today prefer "high profile" careers, but don't fret fellow tradesmen... the phoenix will rise from the ashes of todays remnants. If the economy continues with it's current trend, we will soon be using those first-learnt filing skills to sharpen our axes for the firewood. Tomorrow's artisan will be thinking for himself... wind generator, waterwheel and....

Sounds a bit like the Amish... back to the horse and cart!

Glad to hear I'm not the only sod out there who has noticed the quality decline...

May 2009 bring some better potential to the trade schools...!

Quote from: Leon Sumter on December 18, 2008, 06:44:53 PM
Clive, the sad news is that the old N1 to N6 Certificate courses are being phased out as we speak. 2008 is the last year for N2, next year N3 goes, and so on until N6 is also gone.

Too true, Leon. Companies like Sasol were the first to start phasing out the N6 Diploma in the '90s allready! After all the effort in getting my diploma in '93 I was told that in order to climb the ranks in the company I would now need to go the Technikon route... And to top that off, the Technicons stopped their N6 / T3 conversion course shortly thereafter, so I was forced to start all over again at the beginning.

Like they say, the difference between a student and a learner is that a student is expected to pass at the end... 202

right guys so there we have it. the Grade 12 results are crappy despite the education Minister trying to 'whitewash' the issue. These 'lenars' will feel the pain when they commence their Techinicon/University studies.

Apparently even with a "watered down" maths exam, the pass rate did not impress. Two of the leading Universities in SA have allready warned "lenars" that they will not be lowering their standards to accomodate the lower matric standards. Bring it on...

Hope they stick to not lowering standards.  I have unfortunately seen how the standards have dropped in some universities that I've been involved with over the last 10 years.  I feel sorry for the "lenars", for their results depend on their teachers and the people who set the standards, not only of the subjects, but also the educators' standards.  If circumstances are not ideal, unfortunately their standards and performance/results will be under par.  So glad I'm finished studying (for now).

 iknow Luckily I'm finishing off my studies this semester. Two more subjects and It's all over. woo_hoo  woo_hoo

Vasbyt, Carl.  I'll hold thumbs!  msn emoticon (9)

Thanks Bertie.

Tsk! Tsk!... u okies have not kept up with the new standards.... U r spelling "lenars" wrong, it's spelt 'Lenaars"

:ciupa1:

Close  Mike  ..  but  correct  phonetic expression  and writing is LenaaHs  ,, the  rrr  disapears  and  becomes a    barely  perceptible   H  as in    " I am a LenaaH "   thats  singular  and  many  dimwits   grouped  together  are  LenaaHs   

ha ha

Nope! I theenk u r musstikan, isa thehr not a R in there? Assin LenaaHRs

arse

  ha ha :emot112_2:  Leon Schuster couldn't have done it better...   202

Mike I somehow don't think there is an 'r' in there. Sandy has it correct as lenaah, but I think it could also sound like lenus.

Bertie, the uni's are probably going to have to reach a compromise by lowering standards, providing some sort of bridging course and lengthening their courses. If they do not do the above they will have a massive fallout in student numbers completing the courses and as a result will lose government sibsidies. On a political note they will also be accused of descriminating against previously disadvantaged. The Minister of Ed has already made noises about institutions of higher learning having to understand/compromise/accomodate/whatever the fresh batch of grade 12's. From a statistical point I would like to know what datum/reference line was used when the current raw marks were adjusted upwards, seeing as the curriculum is new and there is no historical data.

@ Leon - All true and interesting.  Yes, I agree, some kind of compromise or adjustment will have to be implemented.  Very soon the excuse of "previously disadvantaged" excuse cant be used anymore.  I mean, I'm sure the Matrics of 2008 had all their schooldays in the "New SA".

Good point there Bertie. A 2008 lenaah would have started school in 1996. There is no way they can use the "previously disadvantaged" bullshit excuse anymore.

TOO  BLOODY  TRUE ...   MY HACKLES RISE WHEN I HEAR THAT EXPRESSION BEING  BANDIED ABOUT ... 

true....in fact all the 'lenars' from 1996 onwards were 'disadvantaged' by the 'new government' wanting to destroy at enormous cost to the taxpayer, the 'previous government's' education system to score political points. The 'new government' was warned by all the educational experts at the time that (resource intensive) O.B.E will never and cannot work in South Africa. There were 4 to 5 curriculum changes over the years as the government desparately tried to get to grips with O.B.E and when it became apparent that O.B.E in its pure form could not be implemented successfully in SA the education authority started 'panelbeating' O.B.E and what we now have is 'messed up O.B.E' where incompetent 'lenars' have been declared competent at the end of each school year for the last 10 years. The 'paw paw has hit the fan' now at the Grade 12 exit level and we have roughly 300000 learners with messed up education who think they are ready for the harsh world of work, Technicon or even more ambitiously University. Reality will soon replace the euphoria of their Grade 12 Pass as these learners seek work or enter Tech or Uni. A very sad and tragic state of affairs indeed.

To me - the education system just doesn't make sense, frankly, it sucks!  I am by no means an educator, but have been helping a lot of kids with projects/understanding their subjects, especially maths, science, biology, chemistry, physics, etc.  When I see the projects they have to do, I can not see how those fit into the bigger picture of "getting de lenars rea-dy for de futoor". 
I have also seen that the BASICS of the science subjects are neglected to make place for "outcome-based" education, or "applied" subjects where the subject is meant to be helpful for a lenar going in a specific direction.   - Bullsh*t, science is science and Newton is still to be proven wrong - without a good foundation of the science subjects, you can not expect to breeze through the higher grades and tertiary studies.  I'm sure this is true for other subjects too.

Leon I agree , more so  the lenaahs  have been crippled by the new regime ,, sure the past system was  not the best for the " disadvantaged "  but now they actually crippled  by the  mess ups that they wont admit to .. even  Robert Mugabe before he became  Mad Bob  had an accelerated education programme  to   try benefit his people after independence ..
Mmm  maybe there method in their madness ,, maybe they just repeating what the bad old nats did  " hou hulle stupid " ??  uneducated  voters are a bonanza  at election time  ?? promise them anything  and they believe cos they cant make educated decisions .. not that  thats a gaurantee , but  hey lets try it ...

You're correct Sandy. The SA communist party rides on the back of the ANC and the idea is to cultivate masses of dumb 'comrades' who are voting fodder which keep the top 'elite comrades' in the lap of luxury.

Mmm  yes we onto  their  game  hey  ... see what  adequately  educated  can do for one ???

On the News this morning: DA politicians uncovered a directive sent to certain schools by the Department of Education to "elevate" their 2008 matric results... image14

Yes, we're definately onto their game Sandy. Unfortunately the "dumb comrades" still outnumber us 100:1 so it looks like this problem aint gonna go away soon.

My advice is to obtain some sort of Tertiary qualification that still means something internationally. A South African matric is worth squat overseas at the moment. In Germany, for example, it is recognized as their equivalent of Std 8.

You're right Carl. When I went to law school in Paris, they recognised my SA matric certificate without hesitation. Nowadays, they would send me back to school before even considering my application.

In todays Cape Times.....markers were instructed to adjust marks upward of Mathematics and Science subjects I ask you !.

so after the 'upward adjustment' if a learner gets at least 30% for 3 subjects and at least 40% for 3 other subjects and fails one subject the learner 'passes'.

Can you imagine the standard of education of this learner.

Well unfortunately for the education department all this 'gekonkelry' of the Grade 12 results will be exposed very soon in workplace, College, Technicon and University.

The learners have been cheated.

Here's the actual report in todays Cape Times;

Claims that markers, including those in the Western Cape, were instructed to deliberately inflate the marks of "weak" matric pupils have been reported to the DA, the party says.
Two independent sources had approached the DA claiming that marks : had been inflated on instruction from department officials, said Desiree van der Walt, DA deputy spokeswoman for education.
In one instance, she said, a DA councillor who is a former teacher reported complaints from colleagues in the Western Cape who had marked maths and science papers. They had allegedly been told to increase the marks of weaker candidates - from 20% to 30% - to ensure a pass.
Van der Walt said a teacher involved in marking history papers claimed the department had instructed teachers that no pupil might receive a mark of zero out of 30 for an essay. If they were able to produce just-one fact, the pupils had to be:-, given a mark of nine out of 30, which would almost allow; them to pass.   
"The marks of every one of this teacher's papers were later raised by the Chief Moderator," Van der Walt said.
If the allegations were true,.. the credibility of the exams had been compromised.
The DA called on Education. Minister Naledi Pandor to institute an independent inquiry into the exams.   
Van der Walt asked teachers,, and officials who had been instructed to inflate marks to contact the DA.
The national Education Department's Penny Vinjevold, , said the department had given no instructions to markers

Looks like I've beeb MIA for a while here, am in agreement with what been said, however I submit that it is all an American / British plan to subjugate the African masses.

Pulled this off the internet, "Verb 1. larn - gain knowledge or skills; "She learned dancing from her sister"; "I learned Sanskrit"; "Children acquire language at an amazing rate"

Why spell it LARN then in the next breath use the correct spelling as learn ????

Sandy has it spot on " method in their madness"

The ANC will continue pandering to the masses instead of giving them a chance at a half decent education, as long as they have uneducated "adult activists" in schools preventing those that want to learn from doing so, they are going to have all the voting fodder they need.

On the up side, it is encourging to see those kids whose parents have seen fit to send them to good schools, achieve. We need to beleive that the small minority that have had the opportunities to realy achieve will be able to swing this country around in time. Not all the youngsters out there are blind to whats going on, those that achieve will enter all fields and hopefully make good decisions for the country.

Those the underachieve, need work and literacy programs that should be supported by local and central goverment, building & improving infrastructure while receiving on the job training as welders, steelfixers, Builders tradesmen etc ( MINIMUM 5 years)

quite correct Clive. Our only hope is for the 'small informed minority' who are aware of this massive deception to step up to the plate and say that enough is enough.

Then of course the low salaries/wages the masses will be earning at the menial tasks they are only capable of performing will also hammer the truth home eventually, unless of course they are utterly brainwashed by their comrades.

Hello to you all.

In the end of the 60-70 at the end of the year the Apprentices  used to go through some sort of ritual.
It could have been that they were awarded or selected to become an apprentice not sure.

They would get drunk and have the hair shaven, I suppose that this practice has ended  :wow1:

A few of them were Bloody stupid they came to the pool and created a danger to the other people that were their