Oranjemund Online

This is a sensitive issue, how many Oranjemunders (ex) do you know that have died of cancer? Do you think this is the norm? Or is happening at the same rate the world over or do we see it more due to being a small community?

I the days of the closed town, we were only allowed out once a month. Beacause of the exray...
When the town was opened and mine wokers had to pass checkpoint charlie, they were often exrayed several times a month. No protection!
Everybody knows exray can cause cancer. In Germany you even get a pass you take to the doc to make sure you don't get exrayed to often.

This topic will develop into a good discussion, some say Xrays, some will say it was merely the decadent lifestyle of living in a smoke filled drinking era...... there are a few other theories.....

X-Ray

The company used that excuse of once a month extit O-mund for health problems

The amount of xrays i had coming from work was extreme, that radiation was over and above the one received in the plant with isotopes on bins.......

Legaly, if contact with radiation is encountered, a badge has to be worn to ensure control of the dose.

However, going through scecurity the badge ( Kodak)  had to be removed, also the dosimeter.......

To be me unbelievable what they done to us.

So it stands to reason why increased cancer cases in O-mund. Of course the company will always deny that.

That is the only moan i have about CDM

In one month i had more then 4 xrays, not the fake ones....it was real, the guy on the mach. was so proud to tell me what i have in my pocket, thats why i know......

I remember ( want say the name) called me in and warned me of being fired next time my pockets are not empty.

Georg

Quote from: Michael Alexander on January 27, 2008, 10:45:22 AM
This topic will develop into a good discussion, some say Xrays, some will say it was merely the decadent lifestyle of living in a smoke filled drinking era...... there are a few other theories.....

I bet you thats what they use as excuses, shame on them

Same with No smoking in SA, at least they have found some thing to distract from other problems, such as Aids

I'm not saying that x-rays have nothing to do with cancer; but here in Ireland; cancer has hit every family in some way or another..............I personally believe our life style and diet are playing a huge factor in the rise of this illness but sometimes I wonder was it always there, just that we didn't know what it was............

Quote from: Rhona on January 27, 2008, 11:21:48 AM
I'm not saying that x-rays have nothing to do with cancer; but here in Ireland; cancer has hit every family in some way or another..............I personally believe our life style and diet are playing a huge factor in the rise of this illness but sometimes I wonder was it always there, just that we didn't know what it was............

Good thought

I for my part am smoker, we are being chased now by society.....we are evil.....

I am so glad the politicians care about all the no smokers.....lets see what happens.
I live in Baden Württemberg. Smoking is banned just about everywhere. The Pubs complain about less costumers, but the air is now better. In Ireland they say on TV here, people substitute now in more drinking

In Stuttgart they have placed outside gas heaters on the pavement to keep the smokers warm when they stand outside to have a fag.
Another CO2 producer is created  thumper

The Price of cigarettes was trebled the last years, that was to increase Tax income and to be used for Pension funds and Sick funds. None smokers clapped bravo

The result, less smokers ---less tax----so they just increased sales Tax by 3 % 
Now the none smokers complain again, i hope they increase Tax even more to punish all, the smile is on me now.


All kinds of statistics i.e.

Cancer can be inherited,

Funny part is, the truth of yesterday is the error of today.

Wisdom of today is the error in the future. Who to beleive ??????

Drinking a Glass of red wine daily:

one year you are an alcoholic,

next year its good for you........

The exaust Fumes from Cars not the cause ?  PWR generation not banned yet ??

The dust you breathe in the Diamond mine ???? or coal mine

All my oncles worked in coal mines, no smokers, all died before reaching 60----Cancer

The others died from led of bullets in the wars..........no law against that yet

ans so on and so on......... iknow arse

I live in Richards Bay and many of us here believe that we have an abnormally high incidence of cancer. The Oncologist who use to visit from Durban on a monthly basis now comes up every week. To me that speaks for itself. We live in an industrial city, in fact the the biggest aluminium smelter in Africa is less than 1km from the nearest residential area. Our air is heavily polluted, which stands to reason that our water must be too.  I believe that pollution from industry and the high level of hormones and chemicals that we consume through our food products is the reason for the increase in cancers. Cancer is definately on the increase, Just that no one wants to talk about it.
:nono1:

I live inbetween 3 Nuclear power stations within the radius of about 35 or 40 km. One of them has been turned off, as german politicions have decided to head into a futur without nuclear power. Great attitude. Even if the solutions are not sure yet, we're on our way.
Ther's a plant on coal-basis about 30km from here. The filters are so good, you neither see nor smell any smoke.
And yet we have our polution...
New studies say, that the cancer rate of children is a lot higher near to nuclear plants, even though the measurements are way below what is seen as dangerous.
Hope my english was good enough to let you know what I mean.
Thanks to our form of democracy, we have the chance to go to the press or directly to politisions, municipality or who ever is responcible.

Here we go

The difference between Georg jun and Daddy Georg

Son. Its a nice dream that your coal plant has good filters, but the massive CO2 output is diregarded

May be someone can explain to me, the big discussion on cars.

Novadays i read CO2 output in kg is even higher then the petrol consumption in kg of that car .......

i.e. a car is rated at 120 g CO2/km that would be 12 kg / 100 km

In Petrol that equals about 12 L/100 km

Who can explain that ???????? or is it mg CO2 what they mean ????

That's true oldman. The coal plant is not clean. I was only trying to say, there are means and ways of pushing polution down to a "minimum".
Fact is, we all need energie and we don't want polution. Then there are some who earn a hell of a lot of money with the buiseness. Especialy if they do not take care of security and filth/polution. So we should make sure we keep our eyes on their fingers. That's my opinion of democracy.
As I've been reading on the board, several OMers are anoyed about the "upper-class" people taking as much as the can out of OM and investing to little in the town and it's people. There's no difference whether whites or black practice these methods. I believe this is one of the reasons why so many people have left and still want to leave. Not just OMer, but even people in the rest of SA too...
I remember OM as a little town with great social pocibilties. Sports, pubs, festivities... you name it. To round it all, CDM was prepared to take over a part of this. (finances) The town looked neat and clean ect.
Now this has nothing to do with polution, but it's thge same topic SandyB was refering to. Things happen that are not okay, and no-one dares to say anything because no-one wants trouble.

Quote from: georg ruf jr. on January 28, 2008, 08:35:17 AM
That's true oldman. The coal plant is not clean. I was only trying to say, there are means and ways of pushing polution down to a "minimum".
Fact is, we all need energie and we don't want polution.

At least we agree in part. What people dont tell you, the fact that you dont smell anything is simple.

Can you smell Co and CO 2 ???? i cant, thats what i am on about and that is what they say kills the climate.

Plans are to stop all atomic pwr and replace some with coal and gas, that is not decreasing CO2

In some few years we will import PWR from other countries made in Atomic Plants.....

You know i also live near nuc plants and so do the French..... The air has never been cleaner.....

The Plant in the North is offline...... What has a burning Transormer to do with nuclear PWR ??? That will and can happen with all types of PWR plants. Dont beleive all things said in TV by unqualified politicians.

Thats pulling the wool over your eye.  iknow

I live in an industrial town, one of the biggest chemical plants. There is ICI plants only a couple of miles from me. There is a vast amount of pollution in this area.
But back to cancer in the last few weeks i know 2 30 year old girls who have died of cancer, and when you read the papers there is someone who has died of the dreaded thing everyday, not just older people but young children aswell.
In our town we are not allowed to smoke in any building and if you smoke on the street and through you cigs on the floor you can get fined up to £80.  You are not even allowed to smoke in you car.....

Nanny  States  with  dysfunctional Nannies making up  more  rules  to  distract from  their  own  shortfallings ..  Just take  a  look at how  dysfunctional  our  Nannies  are here in  SA ??  ..   They mess  up  on  the  power supply  issue  and  now  will  bring  in  rules  to  penalise   you if you  use excessive  electricity  to  try  make  you cut  down ...   They  failed  and  i see  big trouble  if the  mines  are ground to  a  halt  .. how  about  100's of  disgruntled  miners  descending  on   parlaiment  or  the  union  buildings  .. that ought  to put  a rocket  up  their asses ...   rules  and  more  legislation  that is  so difficult  to enforce   ..  biggest laugh  is  the  smoking  issue ..  can you  see  a health  inspector trying  to enforce  smoking  rules  in a township shebeen  ??  ..  he would  most probably be  lynched .. meanwhile  the  soft targets  in  the  safe areas  are targetted    constantly ... blah ! Blah ! Blah !
Sucessful  leaders  dont  have  to  be  clever  or  experts  on   their  job .. all they  have to do  is  surround  themsleves    with  clever  people  who  know about  the  subject   , listen  to  their  advice  and  implement  it .. look  at  our    dept of  finance ..  the leader  is  not necessarily  that  good or an  expert but  he  has  done  the  surrounding of  himself  with   the  clever ones  and  succeeded .. 

We also hear of more people dying from cancer, I'm not sure if cancer is on the increase or we just have more media awareness and coverage. I personally feel like I suffer from information overload due to trying to absorb all the information we are constantly bombarded with and worrying that we need to keep up to date on all topics. It also appears that child molestation etc is worse but I think its just that we hear about it now and in the past we seldom did.  I can't understand how some people get cancer, especially young children, and others who live in the same environment don't? I am a great believer in "its all in the genes" (90% due to genes, 10% environment). You can only make the most of what you are born with. Even our likes and dislikes for certain foods has been traced back to our genes. I read that we all have dormant cancer cells, it depends on your bodies ability to stay healthy which can in extreme cases be compromised by environmental factors like Chenobyl.  Some people smoke like chimneys and still live to a ripe old age. My motto "everything in moderation is OK"

I think it's important to be able to make a decision for one self.
If you take the way people were  (are??) passed through check-point Charly in OM, then I ask you where is the respect for a human being. Profit is okay. But how about health. Of course you can make a decision on whether you work for a company like CDM Namdeb or what ever. But what's your option? The same happens when you have to decide where you live.
What I was trying to say further back, is it's a matter of being on your way. Nobody can say he has the solution. But it's a difference if you always accept what you've got, or if you have a destination (let it be utopia for now) and you're on your way there.
So if Germany decides to stop all nuclear power plants it may mean we'll be using Frensh nuclear power to a certain extent. But we're on our way to using solar, wind, water..... I'm sure other countries will be doing this too. So one day (next generations) will have a cleaner world. I think that's what it's all about.
I'm using a lot of words again. Sorry, my English isn't good enough...

Florrie  ... I  tend  to  agree  ..   some  people  just  seem  to  have  genetic  curved  ball  thrown  at them ..  others  egg  on  disease  by allowing  stress  to  eat them up  alive  and  destroy  their  own  bodies  ability to  defend  itself   ..  the  list  is  endless  .. i  have  seen  people  with the healthiest  lifestyle  drop  dead  , and  some   with  the  worst  and  most  destructive lifestyle  defy " medical  science "  and  live  to  ripe  old  age  happy  as  pigs in  s...t    ...   Its  as  georg jnr says  about  choice  .. choice .. choice   and  even  that is  not  foolproof ...
I know  that  as  I slowly  biodegrade    I  have  to slow  down  on  my  vices   that  I  enjoy
( drinking , smoking ,  good  food etc )   so  as  to  be able  to  enjoy  them  into  a  ripe  old  age  , so  far  I  have  been  blessed  with  a  healthy  sort  of bullet proof  body  but  I  know it  is  not forever  so  try  to  let sensibility  slowly  creep  in  ...

This might sound a wee bit crude or disrespectful, but I always get a big kick outta it, in my mind, not in the general public.... when a fit, athletic nutter kicks the bucket with a heart attack..... a lot of the fitness fanatics nad magazines like to point out, that all us overweight people are gonna die young.... hogwash..... like Florrie says... it's in your Genes, (all 120kg of it!)

faceinfood

Then again there's also the belief which i go with that we create our reality with our thinking, be it conscious or sub-concious.  A brilliant book that backs that up : "The Power of the Subconscious Mind" by Joseph Murphy mind blowing stuff - was written in the 70's but has been newly released revised and updated. People have been known to cure their cancer purely by their thinking..............Louise Hay for one who is also one the leading metaphysical teachers around on healing your life.

Good point Delia, what about those tests they did on people, where they took 20 sick people, ( I don't remember with what), they gave 10 of them the correct medicine to heal them, and gave the other 10 fake medicine, without telling them... they all healed...makes one think.....the power of the mind....

The topic started  with being "delivered" to cercomstances. That's why I wrote the above.
I'm sure Florri is write. At least in a way. How much percent is realy in our genes? Science teatches us a new every day.
You guys remember the former principle at ops Mr. Dickinson. I remember him preaching a healthy way in life. Sport, sleep, no drugs ect. As far as I heard he died of cancer before he retired.
I believe we should live in a way we feel comfortable with. And that's my decision.

Absolutely Mike - I remember that test with the placebos - I rest my case...........if only people realised how much healing power they hold within themselves....................

When your time is up,it's up. End of story, regardless of whether you lived a healthy life or not.So enjoy every minute of your life and cherish your loved ones.

@ Diana - makes me think of what my boet always says - the stress of trying to live a healthy lifestyle will kill you quicker than anything else so just go ahead and enjoy life.......

There was a girl from windhoek at hostel with me who's grandmother lived to the ripe old age of 90+ smoking 90 a day till the day she died???

Winston would say with a cigar in his mouth why he got so old: "No sports". His decision.
Take it as YOU please.

Whatever

Mike I hate to admit this but I also tend to get a warped satisfaction out of it. I tend to be one of the laziest people on earth when it comes to exercise so I also feel less guilty when a healthy person kicks the bucket. Almost like seeing the most beautiful girl in the school with a fat pimple on her face, just makes you feel life isn't that unfair after all.
Delia, you are right about mind over matter. They once incorrectly diagnosed someone with cancer and gave him 6 months to live. He died 6 months later and when they did the autopsy, found that it had been a mistake, he never had cancer. They also took 3 elderly men out of 100 that had to have knee ops where they make small incisions and clean out bit of bone etc. With 3, they gave them anaesthetic, did the small incisions but then played the video with sound etc, asif they were operating, but didn't do any actual operation. The 3 recovered as well as the other 97 and wouldn't believe it when they were told months later that they had never been operated on.

What about the broken heart theory..... a man loves his wife for 40 years, one of them dies.... then the other dies a few months later.... not from anything physical... but a broken heart....

h Mike tell me about it ,,,that has just happened to a coule in my extended family,
My sister -in-law's uncle died, they all went to the funeral in scotland...left in the evening and the next morning her mother got a phone call, from her nephew, to say the wife was found dead at 8.30 that morning....They all went back to scotland the following week......Tragic but it happens they had been together for such a long time, she couldn't live without him.

Michael I truly believe that. What also happens in the elderly is that the grief pushes your your blood pressure up,if not seen to can kill you. I believe this is the logic behind the broken heart theory,saw it with my mom this last year after my dad died.She ended up in hospital due to blood pressure and had never had a problem with it before.

I think I might have said this already...but.... this website, the photo's, lost diamonds, people and old newsletters that I keep scanning make me quite depressed... At the age of 37... I am only starting to realize what life is... what time is... how much of it we have left..........people and animals die.... we get born...... what is faith...where are we all going.... and above all WHY?

Damn  it bothers me so much..... I often start to think that life is indeed unfair.....why?

This is what happens when you knocking 40. After that you knock 50 and life realy starts again.

... hey old timers...when am i meant to start my mid life crises? I fancy a red ferrari!

Nothing wrong with that, as long as you KEEP your wife.

mmmh! i'LL think about that...mind you has all the dosh that I need in order to support my mid life crises when it arrives

Quote from: Michael Alexander on February 09, 2008, 12:42:39 PM
mmmh! i'LL think about that...mind you has all the dosh that I need in order to support my mid life crises when it arrives

Sooner or later, we all go through that, i had my problems getting 40,

50 and 60 was ok again,

lets see the 70

oh me gosh, nor far away   iknow

I'll have a barrel of WHk Draugh for you on your 70th.... Old Man! Really Old Man!

:36_2_35:

I don't think he'll join you Michael.
Give it a try with pinotage or a good old Glenn Fiddigh
bling1

Quote from: georg ruf jr. on February 09, 2008, 12:50:55 PM
I don't think he'll join you Michael.
Give it a try with pinotage or a good old Glenn Fiddigh

You know son !!!!!

Oh yeaaaaaaa, but in Nam it can be Whk draught, it tastse best in Sossusvlei LOL

Mike I agree with you. I have been trying to understand the meaning of life, the more I try, the less I understand. Sorry if I offend anyone on this site, but must admit, I'm not a Christian. I don't believe in heaven or hell. If there is a God why does he get the credit for all the good but isn't held accountable for all the bad he lets happen, and he is supposed to be omnipotent? Why was I born into the family I was? Why do some people have so much and others so little? Why are little children raped and murdered? And if there is a God , then I am a product of his creation and if I don't believe, he can take the credit for that as well, he created me and put me in this environment that has shaped me. If he does exist, was I created to endure all the crap I have, just to worship him. Why does he want to be worshipped, he must have a huge ego?
If I had to believe in anything (not worship, but believe), I would tend towards Budhism. There is proof Budha existed,and yoga and meditation definitely help achieve a sense of calm and being at one with the world. Budhists believe in live and let live, look after the environment, care about animals. They also don't claim that budha was immortal and is the only way to heaven, basically telling all other beliefs they are going to hell. Basically I believe we are part of evolution, what we have is as a result of what we have been passed on by previous generations and that we have to make the most of our time here on earth. We need to improve and preserve what we have for future generations.
I know this is a touchy subject for some. Jarren told his teacher last year that I want to convert to Budhism, she said:"I think we must lock your mom up in a cage." Sorry if I tread on any toes.

Hi Florrie, what do you think happens to us when our time on this earth is over; do you think we keep coming back again and again, as various life forms; be it man, animal or plant form; or do you think when it's over it is over?

Rhona, to be quite honest, I'm not sure what I believe. Like I said, the more I try to understand the more confused I get. I have considered re-incarnation, as it would explain why some have so much and other so little. If you lived a bad life previously, you would have to pay in the next life, it would help me feel better about life being unfair then. Maybe if you are cruel to cats, you come back in your next life as a cruel person's pet. We will never know whether what we believe is right or not. I feel religion is good in some ways because it helps people live with better morals but also bad in that people who take things too literally tend to overdo the religion thing and many people have died or been persecuted in the name of religion. Most of the wars in the world's history have been about religion. I don't call myself a heathen, I am an agnostic (still searching for the truth). Hoping God will make an appearance or something will happen in my life to give me direction where spirituality is concerned.

Maybe we do keep coming around until we actually get it right and so the whole 'deja vu' thing isn't just coincidence but what we actually witnessed previously...............all very confusing and a whole lot of 'fear factor'

Mike, it is amazing how men want a babe-magnet when they reach their mid-life crisis. Either that or they have an affair. I am going for hormone tests on Tuesday, convinced I have meno-pause. Fighting with everyone, not on speaking terms with half my family, sleep badly, putting on weight etc, etc. Luckily I have a family that is so dependant on me, they can't stay cross with me for long because sooner or later they need me to do something for them.
My husband has just bought a Ford F250. Says that is his babe-magnet but I think he is wrong, the men love a F250, not the women.

Yes, Rhona, might explain that. I can't understand though that if we do come back as someone or something different, how do these people contact the spirits of the dead unless they are also just a bunch of frauds?

I don't need a babe magnet.... I have Michele..... ( bonus points for saying that)..

I read a very interesting book..non fiction...about children under the age of 6 who can recall there previous lifes.... damn interesting and holds a lot of weight in the theory of re incarnation.....

I'm not a big religious person, but there must be something/somebody out there...

It's not just outside Michael.
"It's" everywhere. Whatever it is...

ET... phone home!

Quote from: Michael Alexander on February 10, 2008, 08:16:29 AM
I don't need a babe magnet.... I have Michele..... ( bonus points for saying that)..

:emot112_2:    Your mother taught you well AND you listerned

Phew !  quite  a  lot  of  deep  thinking and  speaking  from the  heart  going on  here  .. that  is so   good  and anyone  that  gets  offended   must  have  some  doubts  about    their belief  systems   that are  being  stirred around   by  comment ...    the speaking from  the heart  is also  a  sign  that   yes  we  have  reached  a  point in  our lives  where  we  believe  in  ourselves  a  lot more  and  take  it  as our right  to  question  and  explore   so long  as  we  do  not  harm  ourselves or  fellow  man  ...     as  sort  of  philosophy  I have had  for  a good  portion  of my life ... if  one  took  the reincarnation  part as  absolute  then  it  would  be  beacuse  I  am  a  so  called " old soul " ...   each  to  his  own  .. what you  believe  will  surely  affect   how  you  live  and  how  you  die  and  also  what  happens  to  your  soul / life  force / call  it  what you  may   after  the  eve nt  of   living  a life  ... I  have  a very  simple  philosophy  in  that  we  are  made  up  of   X amount of  elements ( 9 if  I  recall )  and  water .. Ok take all  the ingredients   mix  them .. what  you  got ??  possibly  a  good  base  for  a soup .. For  that simple  mix  of  elements  to  turn  into  us , and other soup  mixes  to turn into  our  animal  kingdom  and  our  beautiful  plant life  then  surely  there  is  an  innate  intelligence  or  divine  force behind it  all   ..  I  therefore  acknowledge  my  creator  . thank  my creator ,    Would  I  worship  and  kowtow ??  Never  !!   but then  if  you  feel  the  need  to  be  in  that  sort  of   relationship  then  do  so ..
On  the subject  of  Mortality  .. tricky  one  .. so  many  easier  said  than dones  in  life ..  what  works  for  one  will  not work  for  the other .. I  myself  have recently   suffered loss   dealing with   the pain  and yes  if you  allow  it  to  overwhelm  you it  will paralyze  your  mind   , even  kill  you   if  you  let  it  .. and  once  again  I  face  mortality  ..   I have  to  accept  change  ..  change  things   accordingly ..   what  gets  me  more  is  not  so  much  how  it  affects  me . but  how  it  affects  others  around  me , their  pain hurts  me   more than  any  I  have experienced  ... I  have  always  been  fearless  in  travelling  through   time  ..  the  20/s 30/s 40/s 50/s  I  have  egged  them  on   never  recall  a  midlife  crisis , but  maybe  that  cos  I  am  a  so  called  " failed  adult  and  failed  protestant " .. I recall  getting very  emotional  when  I  turned  50 .. only  reason  was  that I  could    not  believe  that I  had got  so  far  and  was  overwhelmed  with gratitude   that  me and  my  body  had  come  so  far reasonably  unscathed  .. my  mortality  ?? right  now  not  afraid    cos  I  have  peace  in  my  heart ..

Mmmh! Let's get even deeper...

You are a family of 5 ... mom& dad and your two sisters go to church all the time, their faith is unshakable, their belief unwavering...you on the other hand are a big sinner, fornicating,murder, robbery to name a few....but one thing about you...you love your family very much...they in turn , blindly love you...every sunday afternoon you all meet up, have a family dinner or lunch, hell you guys are close and cannot be split...no matter what....

So judgement day comes, and the four rightous members of your family go upstairs...and you take the pole downstairs... heaven was meant to be a happy place, but due to the fact that you will never be there...ever again..... your family are not complete and happy.... how does this work?

??  phew   Mike  of  the  curveball  questions  !!  The  term  " unconditional  love "  should  overcome  all  that  dogma   and  fear  of  heaven  and  hell   and  the  family   as  a unit  have choice as  well   ..

Ok  shoot  me  down  for    what I will  share  now ...

I  had  a  good  friend   who  finally  passed  on  at  the  age  of  80  a couple  of  years  ago ..   he  was  a  devout  catholic  ..  he  was  not happy  in  his  body  in  the  last  few years  of his  life ,  it  made  him  crochety  and  dificult  to deal with at times ...  after  he   finally  shuffled  off  the mortal  coil  he  would  come  to  me in  dreamstate  about  once  a  year  .. a  sort of  reportback  thing   how  he  was  doing  as  we  alweays  had  deep  conversations   ...   at least  thats  what  I  take  it  for ..   anyhow  the last  time  he  visited  my  dreamland  he  told me straight   to  the point  that  if he  knew  then  what  he  knows  now  he would   have  definitely   hastened  his  exit  from  earthlife   and  not waited for  God  to  take  him as  he was  tought to  believe ..    his final   words    of  " there is  no  judgement  here  .. it    only exists   within  man  to judge and  be  judged , or  be judgemental " ..  it  is  the  last  time he  visited dreamland   .. he  reached a  point  of  understanding  and  peace   ...

THIS IS JUST A DEBATE, AND IS NOT INTENDED TO INSULT ANYONE"S BELIEFS:

Religion is a man made creation, religion has been used to the benefit of many, including various church groups...I remeber watching a program on discovery, where a comment was made .. that a certain pope a few hundred years back stated.... "This thing religion has served us well"

I on the other hand to not hasten to church, and one only see's me there as a mark of respect for a funeral or a wedding.... I say this ... but i am still strong in my conviction that there is "somebody" out there, in Freemasonary it is put in a way, the Great Architect of the Universe.... in order not to offend any particular religion...

When I was about 14, i expereinced two OBE's (out of Body experiences), some of you will be going...oh boy here we go..another nutter, so be it, your belief is yours, but I know what happened to me on those two occasions, frightening, but at the same time enlightening, making me realise, that there is something "bigger" at play here, not religion.... our bodies are indeed on loan to us, we are souls..... there is life ater this... I always made a point after this episode, to remember that as time goes by, we humans tend to forget, start to doubt... and I made a pact with myself there and then to never forget ...thus confirming , always to myself.... that I do not fear death, for I , by my own experience know that there is a life/something after this...

Thats my 2 cents worth...... I respect your religion, your faith.... but I know where I satnd and where I am going...

Thats my 2 cents worth...... I respect your religion, your faith.... but I know where I satnd and where I am going...


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that's probably what it's about. Beliving and having faith, which makes you feel sure about not being lost.
But as far as I'm concerned, I believe our spirit lives on. This dosen't mean my soul leaves my body. Spirit is something I leave for the afterworld. It's something the afterworld has for itself. It's not me...

WELL PUT  AND  FROM  THE  HEART ....    AN  HONEST  EXCHANGE THAT  CAN  GO  ON FOREVER  .. LIVE  AND LET  LIVE ....

..in essence then.... the Mystery, that is life!

Quote from: SandyB on February 11, 2008, 11:53:12 AM
WELL PUT  AND  FROM  THE  HEART ....    AN  HONEST  EXCHANGE THAT  CAN  GO  ON FOREVER  .. LIVE  AND LET  LIVE ....

Sure SandyB.
Maybe you should start a new topic. I'm sure there'll be enough enthusiasts.

Aah !  the  mystery  that  is   life   ..  so well  put  .. it  is  this  mystery  that  good  friends , soulmates  and enlightened  souls    can  share all  the  time   without  fear  or  offence ...

Thanks Mike and Sandy for being so honest, I was worried that I would be shot down for saying what I did, glad there are such open-minded people on this forum. Well, if we are nutcases, at least we are honest nutcases that question things and don't just blindely accept what is fed to us by the masses. We are brave enough to admit that we think differently, even at the cost of being ridiculed by others. I have never had any of the experiences you have had except that I seem to have a memory of existing but not in any physical form, almost like the moment just before you faint, everything is black but nice and warm and fuzzy. So with this in mind, I don't have any fear of dying, I only worry about the ones I will be leaving behind and what effect my going would have on them.
I believe there must be a "Great Architect of the Universe", can't imagine that this universe just happened by accident. It is way too perfect and complex to have just happened. Sandy, your advice from dreamland suits my thinking too, I love the idea that we do not need to worship and lets face it, the humanbeing is so judgemental. Mike, like you said about the family where one goes to hell, the bible says that the head of the family can save his/her family from hell but then that wouldn't be fair on us that don't have a parent with huge faith. One of the reasons why I changed my way of thinking, my first born died 3 days after birth and was never christened, so according to the bible, that little one should be in hell. That bothered me a lot when I was younger. Now I am wiser, I know the bible is written by man and people choose what to enforce and what to discard as the times change.
To quote from a book I've read: Some might find our conclusions shocking, but for us they are merely the simplest and most obvious way of accounting for the evidence we have amassed.

PLEASE NOTE: WHAT FOLLOWS NOW IS NOT TO OFFEND ANYONE OR CHANGE THEIR BELIEFS BUT TO EXPLAIN WHY i BELIEVE WHAT I DO, ie what led to my thinking.

I believe that Jesus did exist but that he was given characteristics stolen from the Pagans. The Pagans glorified a Pagan redeemer, who like Jesus, was said to have ascended to heaven and to have promised to come again at the end of time to judge the quick and the dead. On the same spot where the Pope celebrates the Catholic mass, Pagan priests also celebrated a symbolic meal of bread and wine in memory of their saviour. (This statement is firmly based on available historical sources and the latest scholarly research). This Pagan redeemer was called Osiris-Dionysus, God made flesh, the saviour and "Son of God", his mother was a mortal virgin, he was also born in a acve or humble cowshed on 25 December before 3 shepherds, he offers his followers the chance to be born again through the rites of baptism, he also turned water into wine at a marriage ceremony, he also rode into town on a donkey while people wave palm leaves to honour him, he dies at Eastertime as a sacrifice for the sins of the world, after his death, he descends to hell, on the third day he rises from the dead and ascends to heaven in glory.
Why do we have a cover-up religion?
The Roman Emperor Constantine made Christianity the state religion of the empire. He wanted 'one God, one religion' to consolidate his claim of 'one Empire, one Emporer'. He oversaw the creation of the Nicene creed - the article of faith repeated in churches to this day - and Christains who refused to assent to this creed were banished from the Empire or otherwise silenced.He aradicated all other religions destroyed temples, libraries etc. He wanted a nation that was easier to rule by putting the fear of God in them.

It is easy to believe something MUST be true because everyone else believes it. But the truth often only comes to light by daring to question the unquestionable, by doubting notions which are so commonly believed that they are taken for granted.

We dare think the unthinkable.

Ditto to all your opinions.  Furthermore, I never try to convince others of the way I believe and why I believe, but I do.  I just know that all of us are born with the inherit knowledge to ditinct between good and bad and right or wrong.  I have no opinion as such about re-incarnation, but yes, I have personally experienced de-ja-vu.  I also know for sure that there is the presence of Light around us  -  I experienced that with my mother who just passed away on 1 December last year.  I tried to take photo's of her the day just before she died, but nothing but a white-blue light image came out on the pictures.  She also kept asking me who the person was that stood behind me  -  I could'nt see anybody, but she for sure must have seen someone.

I think if you live your life in a positive way, have positive thoughts and concentrate on the positive things in life, the positive side of life will reveal itself to you.  Not saying that no bad things or bad experiences will ever come your way, but if you try to take the good lessens from the bad or negative things from your path through life, they will also turn out to be positive for you.  

Florrie, I don't think I have ever read in the Bible that children who are not chistened go to hell - that opinion comes from preachers and dominee's etc.  To my knowledge, the bible stipulates that all the little children should go to the Lord, and that those who hinder them in doing so, shall be dealt with.  I am going to refer to the Afrikaans now and try to translate as best I can, so please excuse if I use word incorrectly.

In the Afrikaans Bible :  Johannes II  -  .... when Jesus was 8 days old, he was circumsised as the law stipulated, and then brought before the congregration to be intruduced .....      To my knowledge the act of christening children did not replace circumsision, for why are girls also christened then?    If you study Johannes further, it also says   ".... bekeer jouself en laat jou doop..."  no child of lesser age can even make this desicion for themselves before they can fully grasp the meaning of true forgiveness that comes from an understanding the total meaning of really living their lives in a true and honest way.  I don't think there is one person on the face of this earth who can lay claim to being totally without sin.  No, Florrie, your baby did not even know evil or sin, so how could he/she be condemned to no eternal life in glory, when it was the Great Creator self that took back what belonged to Him?  

I had my first row with a dominee when I was 15  -  they said I was to young for the ceremonial "aangeneem en voorgestel" thing of the NG Church.  I then asked the dominee to please show me where in the Bible it said that I had to be 16 years old before my Creator and God would accept me as one of his children?  Needless to say - he could'nt and then told me it is a rule of the church, on which I replied that the word church does not even appear in the Bible. Yes, it says the House of the Lord, but it does not refer to any specific religion itself, therefore I believe that all church groups at first and foremost breakes 1 of the 10 commandments every day, and so openly  -  they all "oordeel" the others.  

I am writing a book now.....

Like SandyB says  -  share without fear or offence....  

My Father was one of the youngest elders in the CHurch of Scotland, back in Glasgow... Michele and I lived in Sin, according to him, we never got married in a church, but the magistrate with the reception at the rugby club.... he was upset, nagged moaned complained..... eventually he was happy as long as we both signed the bible, because in the yees of god we would be married then....

He wanted us to name my eldest born AGNES, after his mother...... which child in this day and age is given an old name like that.... another twist my eldest was born one hour after my grandmother died in Scotland.....

My mom died of cancer here in the hospital of Oranjemund. Her lungs eventually filled up with liquid , there was nothing they could do..and she passed at 01h20 in the morning. My brothers and I left her 3 hours prior...leaving my father to have his moment..... At home , at exactly the same time my mother passed , the lights in our house dimmed and flickered....my father arrived a short while later and we concurred on the time....

You are taught religion by your parents, as they were taught by their parents and so on, you are made to fear your god, trangress those laws.... an ye will be damned - hogwash........Both my daughters have not been christianed yet, they can decide for themselves when they are older, which faith they wish to follow if any.....

My mother and father left scotland in the 60's , because she was catholic, he was Protestant, they married there and got married (symbolic) twice out here to appease their respective church's... tosh!.. Religion and man are A bad combination....

       To  quote Florrie   ... We  dare think the unthinkable   ...  What  I  see  is  ,, we  as  diverse  as  we  may  seem to  be  are  definitely  dining  at  the  same table   ,  that  is  the    beauty  of  the mystery  of life ...  I  am  honoured ..
 

This  quote  sits  comfortably  in  my heart .. from a  man  who  did  indeed  turn a lot  of things upside  down  and  challenged  conventional  wisdom  of  the time ..


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To add onto that with another quote:

"Total happines is a mystery,
therefor an elusive emotion
enjoyed by few
and unknown to the vast bulk
of humanity."   Unknown

 :When visiting CDM the first time 1956, I remember being X-rayed like in hospital.One had to lie down on a bench and was X-rayed on film (plates), these had to be developed and inspecteted first before you were allowed to leave the area.Still, when I joined CDM in 1957 the X-rays were "too hard", limiting everybodys exit to SIX months , not to 4 weeks after the X-rays screen were installed. It was said that the X-rays were not always switched on - sometimes only a few parts of the body screened - but you never knew When , Where, or if it was true or not. Going through X-Ray in the olden times absorbed usually one hour for a handfull people leaving,hours for a busload.

Quote from: Michael Alexander on February 11, 2008, 11:11:49 AM
Mmmh! Let's get even deeper...

You are a family of 5 ... mom& dad and your two sisters go to church all the time, their faith is unshakable, their belief unwavering...you on the other hand are a big sinner, fornicating,murder, robbery to name a few....but one thing about you...you love your family very much...they in turn , blindly love you...every sunday afternoon you all meet up, have a family dinner or lunch, hell you guys are close and cannot be split...no matter what....

So judgement day comes, and the four rightous members of your family go upstairs...and you take the pole downstairs... heaven was meant to be a happy place, but due to the fact that you will never be there...ever again..... your family are not complete and happy.... how does this work?

Someone I was speaking to this weekend said that once we leave our bodies, we leave all our connections to this world, including to each other. We are with all the other souls, without having any connection to them, and we are happy.

I've lost the plot Florrie!   idontknow

The last sentence was mine, wasn't supposed to be part of the quote. Don't worry if you've lost the plot, I'm still trying to find it.

@ Florrie: How does this guy KNOW??

Once  again  .. there are  so  many  theories  and  beliefs  ,  some  say  that  the  energy  of  what  you  believed   while  alive influences    what happens  to  your soul / life  force  after  you    depart .. that should  allow    elbow  room  for  all  beliefs ..    If  you  believe there  is  nothing  then    you  get nothing .. if you  believe  you  will  be  reincarnated   then  it  will  happen  so .. if you  believe  you    will  go  to  heaven  or  hell  depending  how  you  think   you  lived  your  life   then  so  be  it  etc etc .. one  thing  that  does  happen  is  some   departed  souls  sometimes  have  some  attachment  to their  earth  lives  for some  time   depending  on  their  circumstances  of  departure  .. hence  strange happenings   that  one hears  about  ..   there  are  so  many
"experts" out  there   al  saying  what  is  right ..   I  just  say  one  should  accept  what  feels  right  for  you and sits  well  in  your heart .. ...

well said Sandy. Thank you for your statement. I think that's what it's all about. To feel comfortable with your own belief without harming others.

Florrie sounds lile you would enjoy reading Rudolph Steiner.

Is Rudolph Steiner popular in Britain too?
We have a lot of schools and kindergartens that work acording to his theories. Some people live in something near a sub culture taking care of particular tradition in housing, religion, clothing, agriculture, food and drink.... Just anything.
Seen a place like that when going to school for social work. They lived and worked with mentaly handicaped (hope that's the right way) as if part of their life and family.
Very little spare time and private life.

Thanks Barb, just googled Rudolph Steiner, will definitely read more.

Any of you ever get the thought , that you are the perfect one, the only that really matters and that life is one big game, everyone else around you is not from the same place,not really human, kinda like components in the game, put there..... you're going through a test, kinda like the Trueman show........( I don't think I got this message across the way I meant to!)

I think I know what you mean...........can I be Angelina Jolie in Tomb Raider?

... can you do the English accent she did in tomb raider?

Quote from: Michael Alexander on February 19, 2008, 05:32:48 PM
Any of you ever get the thought , that you are the perfect one, the only that really matters and that life is one big game, everyone else around you is not from the same place,not really human, kinda like components in the game, put there..... you're going through a test, kinda like the Trueman show........( I don't think I got this message across the way I meant to!)

The Trueman Show was working well for you Michael, until you started this site.... hihihi
:emot19:

Georg, there is so much more to Rudolph Steiner than his communities for handicap and schools.

He did hundreds of lectures on reincarnation, general philosophy of life, development of children, Karma and etc

Find a book and read slowly with an open mind.

Sure Barb. I was trying to say, that there's quite a big movement in Germany. The people call themselves "Anthroposophen" that liv and work according to RS.
I didn't like the athmosphere in the pkace we visited. Some of the people moved about, talked and had gestures as is practicing for a bible movie. Seemed a bit creepy. Kind of artificual.
In a way they also reminded me of the Jehova witnesses you find in our pedestrianzones at times. With an expression of suffer in their face and a slight hint "your to blame for all the wrong in the world" It's okay to me for anybody to believe in what he wants to, but they must leave me with my belief. The only way we can realy aproach each other is by living in a process of dialectic. (hope that doesn't sound to German) An experiance one must make oneself. Nothing I can expect from anybody else. I see it this way when it comes to belief.

Brings  a  laugh  to  my  belly  Georg jnr ...  your  description  of  the  people  taking  the   reading  and  the  philosophy  of  the  book  too  seriously .. spooky  ..  artificial .. I  get  image of   the  Stepford  wives   movie  ...
Too many  books .. too  many experts ..  I  dont  read  them   as  they  might    flavour  a   free  way  of  thinking   , instead  I  allow  what  drifts  in  through  various means  to  settle  into  my  conscience ..   and  not  be  of  the  >>>>  " this  is  the  way  to  go " ... "  therein lies  your  salvation "    club ...

There  is  a  bit  of  good  in  every  philosophy , belief , religion ...   yes  indeed  a  show .. and  yes  we  as  the actors  have  once  again choice ...  what  sits  comfortably  in your  heart  , go with  it . one  proviso , no  harm  to  you , fellow  beings or  your  surroundings ...
 

The point being, that people in general are very gullable...... What was that line.... the bigger the lie, the bigger the number of people will believe it.....

I remember two elderly women trying to "teach" me right in a train about 25 years ago. The cheeky young man I was at that time, I told them I believed Jesus was the greatest communist of all times. That cured them. From then on, I knew all I had to do is try an absurd statement and I'd live in peace...
pls forgive me oldman. But I think I know who I got these methods from.
laughpoint  swink

Gullible .. yes  thats soo  true .. too  many  out  there  that are  vulnerable  in  this  aspect  .. More  so  nowadays ...  I laugh, I  get  this regular  email  newsletter  from  Rochelle  and  Bethea .. your  horoscope ..  yes I  casually   scan  through  it  always  noting  that it  is so  generic  and  one  can  pick  what  you  want  from  it  , but  then  it  helps  give  some  people hope  if  they  having a  shitty  day  or  life  I  suppose .. but  what irks  me  is  the  improve  your  life  and luck  attract wealth  happiness  etc   part of  their communiques ..  buy  this  "  cross  of  malta ",  "magic  birthstone"  etc etc .. while I  acknowledge  the   latent   power  of  "talismans'  be  it  a  St Christopher ,   Holy cross , Crucifix , Ank ,  I get  this   mental picture  of  if  one   was  gullible   and ahd  to  succumb    to  the  temptation  of all these  offerings  one  would  actually  be  broke  and  weighed   down  with all   the  charms  and  the  sellers  would  be  rich ..   
One  has  to  try  have  the  innocence  of  faith   combined   with  a  healthy  dose  of  cynic    to  remain  on  a level   with  ones  soul ..

But carefull. Being to cynical will turn you "bitter". But still, I suppose you're right.
Being all the sh*t will make the sellers reach a "higher level" in life and they'll be happier thanks to you...

Context  context   context  .. slap  my  wrist ..  rephrase ..

One  has  to  try  have  the  innocence  of  faith   combined   with  a   dose  of   healthy  cynic   to  remain  on  a level   with  ones  soul  ..

reminds me  of  the  old  latin  saying  .. something  to  do  with  " its  not  so  much the  poison that  kills  but  the  dosage "     So  watch  that  dosage ..  Georg Snr  help  here  please   with  that  saying !!

"healthy  cynicism'  indeed  possibly  a  hard  act to  follow ??    maybe  even  too  harsh  a  word ??   .. should  I  maybe  say   as   lifewise and  streetwise  as  a hooker  ??   take  your  pick  .. I  try to  surround myself  with  honest  friends   who  will speak  their  truth    to  me  , and  I  return  the  same  favour  to  them , we  each  have  something  good  to  give  each   other ..   again  always  with good  intent ..

When the Jahova's come to my door I tell them I'm catholic and ask them to say the rosasry with me first then I'll be prepared to listen , this gets them moving on.

My  sunday  morning  treat  ...   I got  the  knock  on  the door  from  the  watchtower  couple .. I  had  been  out  jolling  till  early  hours  so  looked  the part  ,  secondly I  was  pissed off  at  being  woken  up  when  I was  trying  to  sleep  off  a  bad  hangover  ..  so  I opened the  door  , stood  there  starkers  and  said  in  my  best  croaky voice  that  I had  been  out  till  the  early  hours  in the  fleshpots  of the city  debauching myself   so  was  feeling  a  bit  rotten  but  they  were  welcome to   have  a  cup of coffe  with  me ..  it was  decided   there  and then  that  I was  "beyond saving  "  and they  fled  never to   come near my  house  again  ..  the  gypsies  leave  secret  marks  by  houses  that  are good  to them  or  bad to  them ..   maybe they  had  same system cos  I was  never bothered  again...   

R u sure you never arrived home starkers?    laughpoint   arse

  No .. never  that  baaad !   Lost    shirts   a  couple  of  nights  out   ..    then  again  walking  down  somerset   road  with  the  sun  coming  up   nobody  even  blinked  an eye  ...  just lots  of explaining  to  do  at  home ... 

Hahaha, walking down somerset road, onto Chiappini street, back to hostel, in the wee hours of Sunday morning with a blerrie big traffic cone on my shoulder, nobody blinked an eyelid.... except for my twisted afrikaans teacher who brought it up in class on Monday.......

quickdop

Quote from: SandyB on February 20, 2008, 12:44:11 PM
something  to  do  with  " its  not  so  much the  poison that  kills  but  the  dosage "     So  watch  that  dosage ..  Georg Snr  help  here  please   with  that  saying !!

Nothing to be added Sandy, its the dosage as you say will all things in life  iknow

I just love this forum, where else can you hear other's views on religion without anyone getting mad. Love this topic so much, probably because I am still searching for the truth, hearing other's opinions helps me sort out the muddle in my brain. Thanks for all the honest contributions.

Jehova's witnesses also don't like it if you tell them you are a "born-again christian". I admire them for their dedication but really can't agree with them. During my time at boarding school, one of our fellow students was badly injured in a gliding accident. His parent's were Jehova's witnesses. They refused to allow the hospital to give him a blood transfusion and he died, never could get over that. Me of little faith will put my children's lives above all else.

My children haven't been christined. My oldman told me (20 years ago) that's me getting into trouble. I'm sure it was that way when I was a kid. My kids grew up like any other kid. Nobody has to particapate in religion at school. I think like that they have an objective point of view to find out for themselves what god is. I only realy started believing in my late 20s. I thought for a long time there was no such thing as god. Now I "know" the god I was taught to believe in doesn't excist.

My Kids also, they can choose their own religion when they are old enough, if they want....

My granddaughter hasn't been christened either,I agree with the above. I do think that some sort of religion does create a good moral grounding though.I must say I do tend to contradict myself when it comes to this subject and often wonder if there realy is a higher power or if its just a manual on how to live a good life. On the other hand I also believe in God.Contradiction I know but I find myself questioning a lot.

I  just love  it  ..  we  admit  to  contradiction . that  we  are  perfectly  imperfect  yet always  striving  to  be  better  people  ..  fact  is  that   in  being  so  honest   and open   to  ourselves  and  others   we  are  true  to our  souls .. how  much  closer  to  our  creator  can we get   than  that   ??

I don#t believe God has anything to do with the way of living. It's more like the way of being. God is in everything. Everything is part of God. And that's good that way. The only thing that isn't good about this is what happens in my head.
Death and birth go together. But we experiance these extremes with happyniss or sorrow/pain. That's all part of God. Even the bible says so.
We believe death is a tragedy, even though the bible says we come to heaven/paradise. ???
If we reach the point seeing (and feeling comfortable about) birth and death as equels, we have learnt what God is and learnt to accept the power of God. A point very few people get to.

I do not mean God has anything to do with the way of living.I mean the 10 Commandments for instance would give one a good grounding to live ones life by even if they were man made.

I don't think it's a matter of 10 rules. It's a matter of being open-minded toward anything in life and knowing everything has it's place. not that I can be as cool as that. But it's something you can try to live with. Maybe a process.
Well, you teach your kids not to kill. Then you send your kids to war with a priest on his side.  ??? That's what I'll never understand. There are so many things that have been done in the name of God, th bible or what so ever.

I still think it gives you something to live by,you had to learn somewhere as did your parents and theirs. Like I said the commandments COULD be man made.I'm not even talking about a god here.

Shoot me  down  but  methinks  a  bit  to  much   of  a  debate is developing  here .. hey  we  are all  right  in  our own  way  and  really  have nothing  to  justify  or  quantify ...  you are all  in your  truth  and thats  all  that matters  .........

According to the bible God passed them on over Moses. Now who wrote the bible.
We're talking about the same thing Diana. We all need a code to live by. ( Crosby Stills and Nash) I'm just worried about the connection between God, Religion, rules what ever. These rules were to often used as instruments to keep the masses afraid (can#t find the English words, but I'm sure you know what I mean) and the upper class clocer to God.... and so on...
The catholic church knows how to do that very well. The connection between clergy and monarchy were so close in Europe the masses could be controlled over so many centuries.

To true Sandy, to true     like I said I do tend to contradict myself who knows I may have another theory to-morrow.
e154  Mr Referee (Sandy)

Tomorrow? Sure. Thsat's what processes bring along.
bravo

Most people have no choice, the are indoctrinated into religion at a very young age when they do not understand what it's about.......

after my mum died when i was 20....she was 50....any belief i may had have in god.......which i dont think i ever really had...just dissapeared totally....
I also went through a period of wishing i did believe ...as people who did believe seemed to accept death of loved ones much easier than us non believers.
i then visited my old oranjemunder firiensd Nicolene, a very big believer...who questioned my non belief big time.....we had a lot of talks and debates about god.....and i came home a kind of re born again christian...i found my self praying....something i had never done before......at the same time i also went to see a spiritualist....something else i had never believed in......now i do belive there is something.....things she told me no one else ever could have.......my mum has never really left...and that was a comfort....(30 years later)....but also........im in a big debate with myself now over my beliefs......i was told all the bad things that happend in the world is the work of the devil......through the people that dont believe in god....so its not god's fault that he cant stop the bad things happening cause they are done by people who dont believe in him.......made sense i suppose..........i was also told that visiting a spiritualist is wrong ...as those people are working for the devil....to make you think they are giving you messages from your loved ones...to gain your confidnece and take over your mind....so all very confusing......and to top it all ive had nothing but bad things happen to me and my family since i started to dabble with all this stuff.....on a lighter note....i felt liberated and so lucky to get to 50....was always sure i wouldnt make it to 50....and being diagnosed with an illness last year that ill never recover from makes me thankful everyday that i am here.......i dont know who to really thank for that.....but i do believe that because i do no wrong in my life to anyone....if there is karma....ill come back as my big fat lazy ginger tom cat....

oww another thing ive just thought of.......me and my partner and some friends were having a debate 1 night ...i said that i lived my life so that if i did have to stand judgment at heavens doors.....i would want to be let in.......(am no goody goody lol) so i would not do wrong to anyone......my patrner said he would do what he wanted and live how he wanted...and face any judgement.....if there ever was such a thing ( total non believer)...when the time came.......he was then told 2 weeks later he needs a triple heart by pass....does make me wonder........scarey......

im now kinda sat on the fence.....buddism sounds like my kind of people i must say....but have never looked at any other religion in detail......i think the world would be a much better place without it.......peace for lots of people whos lives are ruled...taken over and ended by religous nuts....crazy

ooops sorry about that ...lol...didint realize how long id been rambling there till i saw the size of the message :wow1:

Don't apologise Bev..............that's what we are here for

Agree on that.  Sometimes very interesting to read other peoples view on issues like these.  Makes us all realize we are not the only ones who puzzle within our own inner sences to make pieces fit into puzzles we have no clue on how to build.

Quote from: Bev Coates on February 21, 2008, 05:24:09 PM
ooops sorry about that ...lol...didint realize how long id been rambling there till i saw the size of the message :wow1:

Thanks Bev. Don't worry. That's just fine.

Its a common  scenario  , when  people  suffer loss , either  they  turn  their  back   on  their  beliefs  and even  some  of  their  values  at times ...  others   increase  their    belief  systems  ...  some  remain  as  they  were  before  the  loss ..  myself ? each time  I  have had  a major  happening in  my life   it  shakes  the  foundations  .. I had  pneumonia  Nov 2006 (  I  alowed  stress to  eat  me  up ) the  medication  nearly  drove me  batty  as  it  did  not  agree  with me hallucinations  etc  .. I  found  I  had  drifted  from  my  center  but being  an  aware person  I  made  conscious  effort  to    get  back there ..  when Ian  Passed  away  I found  myself in  a  position  of  belief  sytems  being heightened  as  I  had  to  be  ther to  support  and  help  as  well .. with  my  loss  of  John  sept  last  year   I  have found    the  foundations  shook  again   and  a   drift .. I  have given  it  a  lot of  thought  and  come to  the conclusion  that I  have to  heal   and  readjust  to   change  and a  new  life  routine , if I try  to  do  it  all  I  will  do  more  damage   than  good  so  I  have  made conscious decision  to  be  kind  to  myself  and  allow  a  some  slack  for  a  while  and explore  .. relax call  it  what you  may ..

Bev, I agree with you about people being able to accept things when they have strong faith, sometimes I think that is the only way they manage to cope in those situations, by believing in life after death etc. I don't agree with your friend that God doesn't stop evil because the evildoers don't believe in him. Many believers (even priests) have committed despicable evil acts, and God lets the innocent suffer through these acts. I get very angry when I see bad things happening to good people or animals. I think that is what turns me against the bible's idea of God. I also agree with Diana that the bible is good in the sense that it gives you guidelines to live by. The problem is when people take everything too literally and try to enforce their beliefs on everyone else. At the end of it all, the bible is written by man without any proof to substantiate whats written, I feel, to control the masses. I like to think that there is an intelligent creator of the universe but I don't think this creator is anything like the bible says, if anything, it would be more like nature itself, therefore in all of us. Sandy with all the cr*p that I've had in my life, I have learnt to give myself slack and to forgive myself, this definitely has helped me cope. We can be our own worse enemy sometimes. We say things to ourselves that we would never say to our best friend. We must try to be our own best friends.

Anyone watch the article on Carte Blanche about that Australian Farmer who got a brain tumor from his cellphone?

are-you-there

Yes, we did Mike but I'm sure this type of story came about years ago, before mobile (cell) phones became so popular. It must be at least 15 years ago that the story was bandied about.

The real truth will only start to emerge in years to come as with so many of these modern technological ideas and inventions, we have not seen any real adverse effects showing any dangers of their usage.

Quote from: Michael Alexander on August 19, 2009, 01:25:50 PM
Anyone watch the article on Carte Blanche about that Australian Farmer who got a brain tumor from his cellphone?

are-you-there

If you use a blue tooth or as the add says "blou tant" you should be safe

So if you use a "blou tand" ear thingy and leave your phone in your pocket (away from your head)... then you'll get "blou balle" instead.
Dang the whole technology thing... where are my bloody matches and wet sack... I want to make a call?

Now you going to get cancer near your pocket

Where's the 'near his pocket' spot ?  ....  his zipper ?   Hello1

Perhaps

Very old topic, but I was just thinking of the four people I know that are resident in Omund and are all battling cancer...... still think we have a high incident rate....

Hi everybody. Slightly of the topic but just wanted to say that having just read all of your comments, thoughts and beliefs. What a wonderfull bunch of people OMs are.
Can you imagine having a topic like this discussed ANYWHERE ELSE in the world without their being arguments, fighting and people trying to force their beliefs on other people. Goes to show that there is indeed something "A BIT SPECIAL" about Oranjemund people. Young and old.
Sorry slightly of topic but as Mike says.    Just my 2 cents worth. love10

I knew the radiologist, Sean O'Connor, who ran the security X-ray system back in the Fifties and Sixties. He told me that  in the late Fifties head office in Johannesburg had commissioned a report on cancer rates in Oranjemund. The results were disturbing enough for the X-ray process to be radically altered. In addition to reducing the X-ray intensity, those passing through had to strip to shirt and pants, no shoes, socks, watches, jewelry etc, women to a dress and underwear only. Everything else had be loaded in baskets for separate scanning (much as is done today at airports). Private rooms in which to undress and dress again were available on either side of the X-ray examining room.This was more a short corridor rather than a room of which one wall was a floor to ceiling blank screen. You were required to stand still facing the screen as closely as possible with arms outstretched.
On the opposite side the machine raised and lowered its scanning arm while the radiologist looked at the image on a separate screen. Nothing could be seen by the person undergoing X-ray as the examining screem against which he or she stood was opaque. During operation the machine made a loud buzzing sound. Diamonds, whether on or concealed in the body, showed up as distinctive dark spots. Exposure time about five seconds.
Sean told me that only he knew when the machine X-ray beam was switched on. He also knew who was being X-rayed at the time and also that person's exposure record i.e. number of times he or she had passed through in the previous three months. Particular persons were also "profiled", that is rated as high risk. Ex-pats were regarded as low risk while South Africans and particularly Namaqualanders were rated much higher. 
Acting on that information he would either X-ray or not as the case required, but still operate the machine so that the buzzing sound was heard, giving the person on the other side the belief that the X-ray was in action.
In this way he cut the amount of X-ray exposure to less than a tenth of the previous levels that most people had undergone.  In terms of security the process was so effective that in all the years I spent in Omund I heard of only one attempt at smuggling past the X=ray system (in a thermos flask). It was of course detected and the person arrested.   
As for the cancer rates: I personally knew at least eight persons, two of them children, who died of cancer while in Oranjemund. That was in a population of about a thousand persons over 14 years. My wife also died of cancer some years after we left Oranjemund. Having said that, I have no idea how this contrasted with rates of cancer elsewhere at the time.

Cancer known medically as a malignant neoplasm, is a broad group of various diseases, all involving unregulated cell growth. In cancer, cells divide and grow uncontrollably, forming malignant tumors, and invade nearby parts of the body. The cancer may also spread to more distant parts of the body through the lymphatic system or bloodstream. Not all tumors are cancerous. Benign tumors do not grow uncontrollably, do not invade neighboring tissues, and do not spread throughout the body. There are over 200 different known cancers that afflict humans.

Determining what causes cancer is complex. Many things are known to increase the risk of cancer, including tobacco use, certain infections, radiation, lack of physical activity, obesity, and environmental pollutants.[ These can directly damage genes or combine with existing genetic faults within cells to cause the disease.[ Approximately five to ten percent of cancers are entirely hereditary.

Cancer can be detected in a number of ways, including the presence of certain signs and symptoms, screening tests, or medical imaging. Once a possible cancer is detected it is diagnosed by microscopic examination of a tissue sample. Cancer is usually treated with chemotherapy, radiation therapy and surgery. The chances of surviving the disease vary greatly by the type and location of the cancer and the extent of disease at the start of treatment. While cancer can affect people of all ages, and a few types of cancer are more common in children, the risk of developing cancer generally increases with age. In 2007, cancer caused about 13% of all human deaths worldwide (7.9 million). Rates are rising as more people live to an old age and as mass lifestyle changes occur in the developing world. On November the 12th 2009 I held my brothers head, his family and his twin were all there around him as he past away he was diagnosed with bladder cancer at the age of 50.  I do believe we all have it in our genes fair skinned people are at a high risk if detected early they can be treated quite effectively.
•people with freckles

•those with fair skin tones

•those who burn easily

•people with light colored eyes, like green and blue eyes

•people with naturally red or blond hair

•people who spend a lot of time outdoors

•people who have a family history of skin cancer or melanoma


There is a lot of research into these cancers and if you ask anyone they will usually say they know of some member of the family or friends that have the disease in 2008 there were 12.7 million cases reported and it's calculated that by 2030 there will be an estimated 21 million, that is around the population of Australia the amount of money invested into finding a cure is in the billions of dollars

                                     (http://s3.hubimg.com/u/5982730_f520.jpg)

I always believe in most cases it's genetics at play here.... I know a few heavy smokers in their 70's that are puffing away as merry as can be.... then there are those that don't even hit 50; makes no sense....

Heard of a 5th person over the weekend..... so 5 oranjemunders currently battling.....

As a radiation worker , I requested my radiation record. All I got from CDM was a record of exposure in the course of service ,  Exposure doses due to X Rays by security was refused .

Hennie, They are not allowed destroy those records, as I was involved in running those records for years. Those records are in the argive.

Got to thinking about this topic again, seeing as there are still folk running around with Cancer, what about the high incidence rate in residents of Oranjemund that never worked on the mine side and thus were never xrayed?

If I am not mistake, the incident of cancer cases is also quite high up around the Swakop area, could there be a link, perhaps something in the sands of the desert?

just a thought!

What makes you think the cancer rates are higher here.

Interesting comment by Bob Molloy about categories of people being targeted for X-ray screening. As a student in the late 70's/early80's I worked at Uubvley magazine during holidays. I was screened far more often than regular employees, which was noticed by many colleagues, because I either missed the bus (town side of security) or the bus waited for me. This despite my arrival at Security being at the same time as my boss (Appies) and colleagues, because we all travelled in the same van.

My parents expressed concern at the frequency of X-raying, and in response CDM flatly denied targeting anyone and insisted that people chosen for X-ray was on a completely random basis.

The high post retirement mortality level of CDM artisans and others working outside of town is and was a disgrace.