That will definetly have an impact on tourism, its getting worse all the time.....
http://www.namibian.com.na/2008/February/national/08E49EA76E.html
..... and I gracefully reply with.... http://www.namibian.com.na/2008/January/national/08DF3DE525.html
No connection to these links?
What's wrong?
http://www.namibian.com.na/HTML/Lead.html
see under
Tourists robbed at gunpoint
TOURISTS at Okonjima Lodge near Otjiwarongo were robbed at gunpoint in the early hours of Saturday morning.
Quote from: Michael Alexander on February 04, 2008, 05:52:19 PM
..... and I gracefully reply with....
Thanks Mike, but your link is opinion mine is fact....big difference
This is nothing new to us,happens often south of the Orange River
Mmmmh! I think I must build a site , just to report on international crime stats...... Armed robbery in Sydney on the weekend.....
Murder in New Zealand......
@ Mike
My link to the topic however was found in a large Namibia Travel forum red by thousends of people in german speaking countries....
I know , crime is not just in southern africa.
The differnce however is. Here we have a police that functions as well as courts that do something ( at least often )
The link goes to a Nam newspaper, i could show you plenty of crime from here.
Amazing how one gets used to accept the staus quo..... its a shame what is happening
The total polulation in Nam equals a large city here, but manyfold crime occuring, that is not normal and very destructive for the image.
The subjective feeling i had in Whk was not fear, but on the constant look out of bandits that may rob or attack you. In previous years i could go window shopping late evening that was less dangerous then mid day now.
All the barbed wire and electric protection/alarms are surely not there for decoration
We say here " Quo Vadis Sa and Nam " Like Rhodesia ???? The start is made.
I hope not to escalate more
@ Georg, I think most white people know that Nam and ZA are on the Zimbabwe path.... but why are we still here, why have we not emigrated yet?
I've often talked to people here, who believed whites shouldn't be in SA. They believed Africa belongs to the black.
I always asked, where do they belong. They always said Europe. Now I ask you Michael. Where in Europe should somebody go living in the x generation in SA?
You're always welcome seeking refuge of course. No problem. It's just, I remember leeving SA after 12 years. I had no idea what or where my home is. I knew I was born German. My mother tongue was german, even though my english was far better than german. But I had a very strong feeling for SA. Nothing I could explain. It was just there.
I hope you understand what I'm on about. Where else do you feel yourself at home?
I so much wished to see a SA and Nam in which people lived in freedom and respect.... I's sad to hear what's happening.
Home is where the heart lies. Hope you all find your home.
Quote from: Michael Alexander on February 05, 2008, 02:01:36 PM
@ Georg, I think most white people know that Nam and ZA are on the Zimbabwe path.... but why are we still here, why have we not emigrated yet?
Mike, if i was there i would not like to leave, i think that applies to many....
I left once and was not happy about it.
I hope you never have to leave, you belong there
Michele and I often talk about this....... the world is getting smaller by the day... we have sat TV, internet , a roof over our heads, good school for the kids, and good jobs...... but Oranjemund no longer feels like "home"........
It was even more clearer to me today, as I scanned all those Newsletters.... 99% of those faces have left Oranjemund...gone.... only 1% of us still here...... sad.....we can feel the time is getting closer to move on.... out of africa......this is why this site is so important..... the memories are building up...... on a server based in texas...... always stable...always there...always safe......
If the urge is to strong, one must move. It's hard to find a new home. It's not just a matter of having a house and some freinds. That's why I was wondering: where does a white South African belong. And I'm sure Michael, that people like you, whos parents once migrated to SA feel more SA than anything else. I'm also sure, if we had stayed till today i would be feeling all these things myself. Being unsure about the future and not knowing how to find a new home...
I think that most of us who left O'mund did so knowing that we were leaving a great and unique place. We also knew that things were changing and that we had to move on before being forced to do so. Finding a new place to call home is not easy, but what matters is being with family and friends. That's what makes life worth living and creates all those great memories that we keep with us, where ever we go. :emot78:
I moved to South Africa at the age of 5 from England. To me home is SA even though i am british and have lived here for 14 years. I lived most of my life is SA and all the friends that i left there are still called my best friens. It is very difficult to move somewhere else when you have grown up in a different place. I have not got the friends here that i had over there and i dont think i ever will. It's different for young children as they can build up friendships but for adults it is very difficult, ask me i know. I might have faily but you also need those friend.
Especially with all Eskom's load-shedding, I am more convinced than ever that SA is going the same route as the rest of darkest Africa. I wouldn't mind leaving but my husband farms here, he would have to sell, and with the exchange rate, we won't get anything anywhere like we have here. I also could not imagine living without a maid, I'm a clean freak and would never manage to keep my house this clean on my own.
Barbara, even if you had stayed in SA, as you get older, friendships change, people move, and all of us feel that we don't make friends anymore like we did when we were kids. Most of my best friends live very far away and I only see them once or twice a year. The weather in England would bother me the most. I hate getting cold.
You're right Florrie. The weather is sh*t. The best way to go through winter, is to remember what spring is like. Spring in a cold country is just great...
Yep! Florrie...you hit the nail on the head..... We enjoy our standard of living too much....and the weather is great..... when one drives over Sir Lowry's pass, east to west , and you see the whole of False bay and Table mountain spread out in front of you........ you know you've arrived....... (Some people must just wake up...and stop blaming apartheid vir alles!)
Unfortunately, I don't think they are ever going to wake up and in 50 years time when this country has gone totally to the dogs, they will still be blaming apartheid.
I think it will take a bit of a dip... for 10 or so years, then it should brighten up.... there's way to much economic power at play here, to let things go one way......
We were debating in the office (trying to reassure ourselves) , about where we should emigrate to... (1) America----- to many tornado's, to many terrorists want to blow up the place, to many gun toting mall shooters! (2) Canada----- beautiful, but to blerrie cold.... vulnarable to big freeze and no power (3) Europe------ to grey, to wet, lots people, many religious sects wanting to bomb things, hamburg cells, to much red tape, to liberal..... (4) New Zealand... Power Problems, liberal govt does not want to build more power stations because of green house gas, Maori's want their land back, terror cells uncovered last year, New zealanders emigrating outnumber those coming in....(4) Australia...... every time there's drought (which is often), they go into panic mode, major drug problems,and the arabs want to bomb them for helping out america......... (5) South America...... military junta's every decade, Argentina economy up to maggots, no english language.....(6) Asia... to many people, pollution.......... So.......we sing to ourselves.... HELLO AFRICA..tell me how you feel....HELLO Motherland...... time for a braai.....
Now your talking my language Michael. You'll find problems where ever you go. And in the end you'll say...
Home is where the heart lies.
Exactly Georg, Stephen and the children can all have British passports and myself a German one,but I'm not ready to give up this sunshine and all that I have here.
Have you been in Germany before? Don't remember if you mentioned....
No I haven't, I always have a back up plan should I need it.
Mike, agree with you on all the problems in other countries but don't hold-out much hope for things to turn around in SA. If I could, I would love to live in the Bahamas. Went there for my honeymoon, paradise on earth. But like Georg said, home is where the heart is. Georg, I spent one day in Germany on my way to Belgium. Landed at Frankfurt and took a train into the countryside and got off at all the small villages to look at old castles etc. Had such a laugh about the toilets there. Electronic doors and if you accidentally push the button, the door slides open and all the pedestrians can see you sitting on the loo.
:36_2_35:
But they're clean...
Yes, they were clean. I could live in Germany if it wasn't for the weather. I could live in Australia if it wasn't for their terrible accent and use of the word "Sheila". I do however feel very safe in SA when there is mention of nuclear war. Kimberley is one of the least densely populated areas in the world, a nuclear bomb anywhere near here would be a such a waste of a bomb, just wish they would fix the potholes. Speaking of holes, they are worried that the walls of the big hole are eroding due to heavy rains. They are discussing closing off a main route past the big hole because heavy traffic, especially trucks might just be making matters worse. Businesses on that route are not happy about the impending closure, scared tit will affect their turnover.
Here's an article in the Volsblad for those of you that understand the lingo.... I see more than 80 artisan (ex Eskom) left Eskom and are now working for western power in Australia...
"Wat 'n ruk gelede dalk net iets in hul agterkop was of selfs heeltemal ondenkbaar, het nou vir 'n klomp Suid-Afrikaners 'n werklikheid geword: emigrasie.
Daar is nou 'n ongekende vlaag Suid-Afrikaners wat wil emigreer.
Emigrasiekonsultante met wie Volksblad gepraat het, sê Januarie was hul besigste tyd nog. Die meeste van dié maatskappye se sake het verdubbel of selfs verdrie- of vervierdubbel in vergelyking met dieselfde tyd in vorige jare.
Mnr. Andrew Kerr, besturende direkteur van Network Migration Services, een van Suid-Afrika se grootste emigrasiekonsultante, sê die toename in mense wat wil emigreer, is "skrikwekkend".
"My onderneming bestaan al 15 jaar en ek het nog nooit so iets gesien nie. Dit oortref die 1993-'94-uittog ver."
Kerr hou oor die land heen seminare oor emigrasie. Gewoonlik woon sowat 60 mense só 'n seminaar by, sê hy.
"In Pretoria het 260 mense my seminaar bygewoon. In Nelspruit het 160 mense bespreek. Verlede Maandagaand, in Vanderbijlpark, het 300 mense opgedaag. Verlede Woensdag het 250 mense die Durban-seminaar bygewoon. Ons beleef 'n toename van omtrent 300%."
Mnr. John Chapman, besturende direkteur van nog 'n emigrasiemaatskappy, ACN Consultants in Johannesburg, sê dit kan nie bloot 'n toename in emigrasie genoem word nie. "Dit is 'n vloed. Van Januarie word ons absoluut oorval. Ek is weke vooruit vol bespreek. Dit is eintlik vreesaanjaend."
Me. Hayzel Meyer, eienaar van International Immigration Alliance in Sandton, stem saam dat die toename in mense wat wil emigreer sedert Januarie "ongelooflik" is. "Ons kry omtrent tien oproepe elke tien minute."
By die maatskappy Migrate2oz in Kemptonpark doen normaalweg sowat vyf mense per week navraag oor emigrasie na Australië. "Sedert Januarie kry ons tien mense per dag," sê me. Rolene Kruger. "Dit was nog nooit so nie."
Volgens mnr. Adriaan van den Berg, 'n Suid-Afrikaanse sakeman wat vier jaar gelede na Perth in Australië geëmigreer het, word hy "oorval" deur mense wat met hom wil praat oor emigrasie. "Die navraag het van middel Januarie meer as verdubbel en die afgelope twee weke kan ek sê dit het weer verdubbel. Mense wat vroeër positief was dat Suid-Afrika nog 'n toekoms het, het nou gebel en gesê hulle wil pak en kom."
- DIE REDES WAT die voornemende emigrante gee, is almal dieselfde, hoewel dit in volgorde van belangrikheid verskil. Die hoofredes bly misdaad, regstellende aksie, korrupsie in die regering en politieke onsekerheid.
Die korrupsiewolk oor mnr. Jacob Zuma, die ANC se nuwe president en moontlik Suid-Afrika se volgende president, en komm. Jackie Selebi, nasionale polisiehoof, duik telkens op wanneer mense sê hoekom hulle wil emigreer. "Mense voel onseker oor die toekoms van politiek in Suid-Afrika."
Ondanks die amptelike misdaadstatistieke bestaan die persepsie dat geweldsmisdade meer, erger en wreder word. Hoewel bogenoemde onderliggend die hoofredes is vir emigrasie, is die konsultante dit eens dat die kragkrisis die laaste strooi was. "Die Eskom-debakel het mense oor die rand gestoot," sê Kerr.
Volgens Chapman is mense bekommerd omdat daar geen aanspreeklikheid vir wanbestuur of swak regering is nie. "Mense word nie afgedank nie. Hulle sê net jammer en gaan aan."
Die negatiwiteit het blykbaar baie skielik gebeur, want marknavorsing dui daarop dat mense nog in November verlede jaar nie méér negatief was as die vorige jaar of die voorafgaande maande nie.
Volgens mnr. Neil Higgs van die marknavorsingsmaatskappy TNS Research Surveys het 'n studie onder 2 000 stedelike volwassenens gewys 64% het verlede November saamgestem met die stelling: "Jy voel positief oor Suid-Afrika en sy toekoms." Die syfer vir wit mense was 50%, vir swart mense 73% en vir bruin mense 49%. Die syfers was min of meer dieselfde as in Mei en Maart 2007 en in Oktober en November 2006.
Die peiling is egter gedoen voor die kragkrisis. "Ons doen nou dieselfde studie en ek verwag dat die syfers vir Januarie en Februarie aansienlik laer gaan wees. Dinge soos Eskom en die petrolprys sou waarskynlik daartoe bygedra het dat daar 'n toenemende pessimisme sal wees."
- ME. NADIA LOOTS (28), 'n reisagent, en haar verloofde is onder dié wat begin vanjaar besluit het om Suid-Afrika permanent te verlaat.
"Ons is nou net mooi keelvol vir slaggate, beurtkrag, geweld, taxi's en onderwysstelsels wat uitmekaar val. 'n Mens vertel vir jouself dit sal beter raak, maar uit die bloute het dit begin voel of die land 'n hele paar stappe agteruit gee. Ek weet dit gaan hel wees om ons lewe op te pak en letterlik van voor af te begin, maar ek gaan nie ons kinders hieraan blootstel nie," sê sy.
Talle van die mense wat nou besluit om te emigreer, doen dit met 'n swaar hart. "Dis mense wat dit nog nooit oorweeg het nie," sê Chapman. "Hulle het in die land geglo en in sy vermoë om vooruit te gaan, maar talle mense begin nou in daardie vermoë twyfel."
Kerr vertel van een só 'n kliënt wat hom verlede week gaan spreek het. "Hy het vir my gesê hy is lief vir sy land. Hy het gesê 'n maand gelede sou hy nooit kon dink hy sou nou voor 'n emigrasiekonsultant sit nie."
Die meeste mense wat die emigrasiekonsultante bel, is verby die wik-en-weeg-stadium. "Daar's mense wat sê hulle wil weg wees voor die einde van die jaar," sê Chapman. "Dit is nie 'n geval van 'dalk' of 'ons oorweeg nog' nie." Hoewel daar ook enkellopende mense onder die voornemende emigrante is, is die meeste aansoekers gesinne, sê die konsultante.
"En wanneer gesinne in hul geheel die land verlaat," maan Chapman, "kom hulle nie terug nie."
- AUSTRALIË IS VAN die gewildste bestemmings. "Sestig persent van ons kliënte gaan Australië toe, 35% na Nieu-Seeland en sowat 5% na Kanada," sê Kerr.
Daar is op 29 en 30 Maart vanjaar 'n ekspo in Johannesburg van Australiese maatskappye wat Suid-Afrikaners kom werf. Me. Kylie Barker van Opportunities Australia Expo sê die reaksie van Suid-Afrikaners was tot dusver "oorweldigend".
"Meer as 2 500 mense het hulle reeds geregistreer en kaartjies gekoop – en dis nog twee maande voor die skou."
Volgens haar het meer as 8 000 mense die ekspo verlede jaar bygewoon. Hulle verwag net soveel of nog meer mense sal dit vanjaar bywoon "om 'n werk en 'n nuwe lewe in Australië te kry".
Mnr. Rupert Merrick, ook van Opportunities Australia Expo, sê sowat 4 000 Suid-Afrikaners het in die jaar 2006-'07 na Australië geëmigreer.
Volgens syfers van Australië se hoëkommissariaat in Suid-Afrika was dit in 2004-'06 sowat 4 700. In 2003-'04 het 6 388 Suid-Afrikaners na Australië geëmigreer.
Me. Elizabeth Campbell, eerste sekretaris van immigrasie by die hoëkommissariaat, sê data vir die eerste ses maande van die jaar 2007-'08 is nog nie beskikbaar nie, maar daar is nie 'n opmerklike toename in navrae aan dié kantoor oor emigrasie nie.
Van den Berg, die Suid-Afrikaanse sakeman wat in Australië woon, sê sewe voormalige Eskom-ingenieurs het vandeesmaand by Western Power in Australië begin werk. "Verlede jaar het 80 vakmanne van Eskom gekom."
Al die voornemende emigrante is beroepslui en goed opgeleide mense, sê die konsultante. "Dit is mense met vaardighede en sakemense," sê Chapman. "Dis weer eens die room. Dis hartseer om te sien hoeveel goeie en goed opgeleide mense die land verlaat."
Dr. Sandile E. Simelane van Statistieke Suid-Afrika bevestig in 'n verslag oor emigrasie dat dit hoofsaaklik die hoog opgeleide en vaardige mense is wat uit hul geboorteland migreer.
Suid-Afrika het reeds 'n "enorme vaardigheidstekort" en kan nie bekostig om nog beroepslui te verloor nie, sê me. Alana Bailey van AfriForum se Kom Huis Toe-veldtog. "Ons het hierdie mense nodig. Die vaardigheidstekort gaan net vererger."
Me. Gayleen Baxter, bedryfshoof van Kelly, sê Suid-Afrika se maatskaplike omstandighede soos misdaad maak "ons beste en slimste" ontvanklik vir aansporings van ander lande. "Dit kan dien as salf vir hul wonde en pyn hier in Suid-Afrika."
- LUIDENS 'N VERSLAG van Statistieke Suid-Afrika was daar sedert 1970 hoofsaaklik drie spitstye sover dit emigrasie aangaan. Dit was in 1977 (net ná die Soweto-oproer), 1986 (politieke onrus) en 1994 (politieke onsekerheid ná demokrasiewording en verhoogde misdaadsyfers).
"Emigrasie in die post-1994-tydperk was geleidelik," lui die verslag. In 2003 was die aantal emigrante 48,4% hoër as in 2002. Dit het van 10 890 in 2002 tot 16 165 in 2003 toegeneem.
Maar dit is die laaste amptelike statistieke wat oor Suid-Afrikaanse emigrasie beskikbaar is. Sedert Februarie 2004 word hierdie data nie meer versamel nie weens die Wet op Immigrasie 2002, luidens die verslag.
Volgens Simelane blyk dit uit die geskiedenis dat lande netto emigrasie (wanneer meer mense emigreer as immigreer) ervaar in tye van politieke onsekerheid.
Bailey sê daar is ondanks die nuwe vlaag van emigrasie steeds Suid-Afrikaners in die buiteland wat wil terugkom. Maar die probleme wat nou 'n golf Suid-Afrikaners landuit dryf, maak ook diegene wat oorweeg om terug te kom, huiwerig. "Hulle is op die hoogte oor Eskom en Selebi en al die dinge. Daar's talle ouens wat so te sê hul tasse gepak het, maar wat wag om te sien of daar 'n oplossing gaan kom."
Bailey meen baie meer mense sou al terug gewees het as dit nie vir hierdie probleme was nie. "Dis vir mense erg frustrerend as hulle graag wíl terugkom en 'n verskil wíl maak, maar hulle het hierdie vrees vir hul lewe en ook vir korrupsie, swak dienslewering en kragprobleme."
Hi Mike
Interesting and goes in line with the discussion we have in another forum Namibia - South Africa.
The problems derived from all this are homemade. We know why and how.
It is for me unbeleivable what has happened in such short time and how things have run down.
Majority rule with preference in the Jobs just by race is nothing but reversed apartheid. AA is the word.
Already some few years back i have moaned about that on my Homepage.
I wish that the international community takes note of that as they dit in apartheid times.
Here the article about that along with my general text
http://www.dersofaladen.de/georg/html/kapstadt.html
I think it will get worse Georg, I think that the masses are gonna turn on each other, this is no longer a political white black thing..... and the skills that the country(s) are losing is not ever gonna be corrected....