Ship Wreck

[Dalene Steenkamp (Coetzee)]

Most defs worth looking at! 

  -  will be in OM and not allowed to go to the site!   Boo hoo hoooooo

[Michael Alexander]

Great Link Alexandre' , nice stuff... I have'nt seen those pics yet!

[Michael Alexander]

R they 100% sure, that Andrew's mast is part of the same ship.....? the woods look different in the pics.....

[Alexandre]

Well, they are bound to be different. Wood for the hulk would be grown in Portugal. Wood for masts and spars used to be bought in Northern Europe, Poland, for instance.

Anyhow, you are right: archaeologically speaking they are non-connected finds.

[Alexandre]

From today's Republikein (translation needed...)

Oranjemund se skatskip

Die eerste en blykbaar die enigste skets van ses van die sewe skepe van Portugal se 1533-vloot na Indië waarvan die "Bom Jesus" nie haar eindbestemming bereik het nie. Die vloot het onder bevel gestaan van die twee meesterkapteins, Don Gonçalo Coutinho en Don João Pireyra. Die "Bom Jesus" onder bevel van Francisco de Noronha het "iewers by die Kaap van Goeie Hoop" in 'n storm verdwyn net om 500 jaar later op Namibiese grond gevind te word. Francisco de Noronha was van adellike afkoms en was die Ridder van Santiago in die koningshuis van Odemira. Die skets van die sewe vaartuie is opgeneem in die boek, O Livro das Armadas Memória das Armadas, en dateer uit die jare na 1566. Die skilder is onbekend. Foto's en inligting is vanuit Lissabon deur dr. Alexandre Monteiro verskaf.

Die skildery van die "Bom Jesus" wat in April vanjaar in die diamantgebied by Oranjemund gevind is. Dit is opvallend dat die skip se seile op dié skets net bo die water uitsteek met die onderskrif "perdido" wat aandui dat dit vergaan het
http://www.republikein.com.na/politiek-en-nasionale/oranjemund-se-skatskip.76240.php

[Bertie Horak]

Alexandre - Here's translation for you:

Oranjemund's treasure ship

The first and apparently only drawing of 6 of the 7 ships depicting the Portuguese 1533 fleet to India during which the "Bom Jesus" didn't reach her final destination.  The fleet was under the command of  the master captains, Don Gonçalo Coutinho and Don João Pireyra.  The "Bom Jesus" under the command of Francisco de Noronha disappeared "somewhere in the Cape of Good Hope" during a storm, just to be found 500 years later on Namibian soil.  Francisco de Noronha was from noble descent and was the Knight of Santiago in the dynasty of Odemira.  The drawing of the seven ships is from the book, O Livro das Armadas Memória das Armadas, and dates from the year 1566.  The artist is unknown.  Photo's and information is supplied by (Oranjemund online's favorite expert) Dr Alexandre Monteiro of Lisbon.

The painting of the "Bom Jesus" which was found in the diamond area of Oranjemund in April this year.  It strikingly shows that the sails protruded just above the water, with a subscript "perdido" which means that it has been destroyed.

[Alexandre]

Thanks, Bertie.

Today I have found the probable cause for all those spanish coins to be there in the first place... :)


"Por El Rey

A dom António d'Atayde, comde da Castanheira, e veador de sua fazemda

Comde, amigo. Eu, el Rey, vos emvio muito saudar. Ey por bem que, dos cem mill cruzados que os mercadores d'este derradeiro comtrato sam obrigados pagar amtes da partida da armada da Imdia, lhes sejam tomados em pagamento vinte mill cruzados que tem em Sevilha, e que as letras d'elles se emtregem a Bertolameu Drago, cavalleyro de minha casa, pera os lla ir Requerer. Emcomendovos muito que mamdeis logo Requerer a Joham Gomez, thesoureiro d'esa casa, as ditas letras, e carregar sobre elle, em Recepta do quall as Recebera o dito Bertolameu Drago, e lhe dey para seu credito atee lhe emtregar o dito dinheiro; e isto mamdares ffazer logo, pera que se nam detenha.
Cosme Annes a fez, em Évora, aos xii dias de fevereiro de 1533.

J. Sam vinte mill cruzados os que ora am de dar em Sevilha.

Rey


Pera o cõde da Castanheira, sobre estes XX mill cruzados que os mercadores do cõtrato dã em Sevilha"

[georgswa (Georg Ruf) (RIP)]

Thats what bable fish makes out of Alexandres post, read between the lines


In English

" For El Rey Dom António d' Atayde, comde of the Chestnut tree, and veador of its fazemda Comde, friend. I, el Rey, you emvio very to greet. Ey for good that, by one hundred mill crossed that the merchants of this last comtrato sam obliged to pay amtes of the departure of the armed of the Imdia, are taken them in payment twenty mill crossed that it has in Seville, and that the letters of elles if emtregem the Bertolameu Drago, cavalleyro of my house, pear lla to go To require. Emcomendovos much that mamdeis soon To require the Joham Go'mez, thesoureiro of esa house, the said letters, and to load on elle, in Receives stolen goods of quall Recebera the said Bertolameu Drago, and dey for its I credit atee it to it to emtregar the said money; e this mamdares to ffazer soon, pear that if nam withholds. Cosme made it to Annes, in Évora, to xi the days of February of 1533. J. Sam twenty mill crossed the ones that however am to give in Seville. Rey Pear cõde of the Chestnut tree, on these XX mill crossed that the merchants of the cõtrato of the one in Sevilha"

[Bertie Horak]

@ Georg Snr - I think Babel is speaking in tongues again!  Can't follow the story. 
@ Alexandre - Translation into English please (or just summary)?

All I can make out that 20 million was paid for/taken by merchants of Seville called Bartolameu Drago to get back stolen goods on 11 February 1533?

  Help Alexandre!

[Alexandre]

This is a letter by King John III, written at Évora, on February the 13th, 1533, where he tells the Count of Castanheira, his "finantial minister" that he ordered one of his officers, Bartolomeu Drago, to go to Seville, Spain and, fetch there 20.000 cruzados in Spanish coins that were put forward by the private merchants in order to sail in the March 1533 fleet that sailed to India, wheres they would be used to buy pepper.

[Bertie Horak]

Thanx Alexandre - Pepper? Not a very romantic or exciting expedition, would have been better if they went to buy exotic pole dancers or .....

[Michael Alexander]

@Bertie... leave keith outta this!

[Gordon Brown]

Have it on good authority this was a clandestine illicit diamond buying operation that went awry!

[Michael Alexander]

Here we go again, There is currently a large presentation/meeting going on in the Rec Club with all the stakeholders from the Shipwreck Community. They paused for lunch and I got to see the agenda and a very nice booklet, which I hope to get my grubby paws on to scan for you lot....

What I heard, Remember how that crowd from Luderitz were trying to get their fish flavoured hands on the wreck to put up at Luderitz, well according to well informed sources, the minister reckons the wreck Museum will be built at Oranjemund, I also noticed that in the booklet, the wreck is referred to as the "Oranjemund" wreck....

It really is a most excellent booklet with reference to the entire project and documents the exact weight and quantity of items found...

Lets see what I can find....

[georgswa (Georg Ruf) (RIP)]

That is good news for  O-mund