Rape in Oranjemund!

Mike Stenson (RIP) · April 19, 2008, 07:06:27 AM

:36_2_24:
off to the dog box Carl, and if you find Koos there give him a good :emot112:
:emot19:

georg ruf jr. · April 19, 2008, 07:32:19 AM

In my job, we train people to capable of doing and "being" several things. We try to teach them they're "full worthy" humans as everybody else. (Hope that was English enough) This means they have the same right, but also the same responcabilty as everybody. There "life backround" is part of their personality, which means I must, as a profesion, know several things (for eg what makes him be a victom) to understand why the person is this way. It doesn't excuse him from what he's done. It just helps to understand and find ways of working with him profesionaly. (as a social worker/trainer)
As I've mentioned further back, we must make sure society is protected. These means take these people out of social life and yet offering a life in dignity. No hanging, no mobbing ect... History shows, this doesn't help anybody. It would have the character of the inquisition. The main purpose of the inquisition was put people away that were politicaly not wanted.

Michael Alexander · April 19, 2008, 07:36:43 AM

I think that you guys living in Europe have gone soft and have become way to liberal.... thats just my comment, I am in favour of the death Penalty....

georgswa (Georg Ruf) (RIP) · April 19, 2008, 07:40:35 AM

Quote from: Michael Alexander on April 19, 2008, 07:36:43 AM
I think that you guys living in Europe have gone soft and have become way to liberal.... thats just my comment, I am in favour of the death Penalty....

If that would stop such crime i would also be in favour.........
I am doubting that it works

Am i right, the death penality is abolished in SA ???

Michael Alexander · April 19, 2008, 07:45:18 AM

You are indeed right, No death penalty in ZA, the ANC is way to much in favour of human rights, if you murder or rape, you should lose that right.... Namibia also.. No death Penalty... Botswana on the other hand, like to hang people, a British Tradition..... that works.... Bloody Liberals, wait till somebody murders somebody closer to you....

I'm not starting a fight here...just expressing my feelings!

georg ruf jr. · April 19, 2008, 07:57:56 AM

That's okay Michael. This subject is full of emotions. It's hard trying to discuss this on a basis of facts. I'm often in a contoversy with colleagues, as most of them are far to liberal for my opinion. They would for eg give a "criminal" a new chance even if they're not sure if the guy is realy under control. That's being stupid.
I trained a guy who had raped a little girl on a playground. He used to grab his mother and sisters in parts of their body in away...
When trying to talk to him about these things he would always turn me down. I believe, that if somebody cannot speak about his delict, he's not done with it.
This guy lives on his own in a town nearby. He is supposed to be getting a new chance. I asked my boss, if he want's to give him a new chance of harming somebody... Need I say more?
Now that is what I call to liberal. We've had several cases of people being criminal again and in some cases ending even in murder.
If one of them "breaks" out of jail (in the rehabilitation the doors get opened more and more...) they send a whole squad (often with helicopter) of police to find him. Geez! Who pays for that? And what for?
If I talk of dignity, I mean these guys must be out of society but treated as humans....

Michael Alexander · April 19, 2008, 08:06:25 AM

Good point, I guess there's a point where being to liberal, verges on becoming just plain stupid...

I was reading the Scottish Newspaper online yesterday, where they want to "bribe" foreing prison inmates, to accept 3000 Pounds each and a oneway ticket back to your homeland..They say it's cheaper than keeping them in jail.... What a load of crap..... they are criminals...they commited a crime in your country and now you want to pay them a mountain of money.... R45 000.00 and send them home.... thats bordering on Stupidity...

Cherry (Alcock) · April 19, 2008, 08:12:01 AM

Don't get me wrong - I am a proponent of the death penalty and the punishment should fit the crime. You take a life, you forfeit a life - simple as that! However, it does link to race and crime. The guy who murdered my sister was white and should have fried for it. Death penalty is not linked to race, religion or creed.

georg ruf jr. · April 19, 2008, 08:22:44 AM

Sorry about your sister Cherry. That's always a big tragody for you who stay...
So many people have been convicted to death that were inocent. Nowadays with DNA tests, you can find out more about the "truth". But what is the truth? Psychologists tend to say, the summ of all the fragments never make a whole. You'll always have (at least) a little rest you'll never find out about. Remember. I said to believe it's part of being human to be aware of ones own responsability. And yet there's this factor of what comes from outside. (no excuse as I said)
1. My questions are, is it my right to kill somebody just because I have the power of or by law?
2. Whom will it realy help, except those that feel hate for the criminal?
3. Does it help fight crime?

Cherry (Alcock) · April 19, 2008, 08:29:07 AM

Frankly, it's a sticky subject Jr. Although there are studies that say that the death penalty does not reduce crime, my view is that every single day you read all over the world and particularly in SA that criminals who have been released/rehabilitated go out and commit exactly the same crime and worse. Sorry, my view is that you just wipe them off the face of the earth but ...

Playing devil's advocate though, there are many cases of people sitting on death row convicted for crimes they didn't commit and many years later DNA retesting has proved this.

I think this is a subject like religion, politics, etc that one has to debate within yourself and make the choice of belief that fits your moral code.

georgswa (Georg Ruf) (RIP) · April 19, 2008, 09:07:38 AM

@ cherry

Well said

Now i see that discussion beeing emotional. As mike says, wait till it happens in your family. I think i would be the the first to call for death penality.

My beleive however is , it will not prevent anything on the long run.

Here more time and effort is spent on the criminal then on the victim. All excuses are searched for why he dit what he dit.

We see it times and times again how those monsters are released and do it again and again. Released by the misjudgement of head shrinkers and legal peronnel, Judges, Laywers etc......

It does not help any victim or family member involved

I have no answer to it. It makes me sick thinking of it.

Patricia Lotte · April 19, 2008, 09:15:14 AM

Although I think that justice in this region can be barbaric, I am all for the death penalty in certain cases. For those sentenced to life, it should be LIFE without parole. I don't believe that time behind bars makes things right. Definately not for the victim and their family, and definately not for the rapist or murderer. If they were able to commit such a horrifc crime once, they will do it again. More is done nowadays to reinstate criminals than to assist victims.

georg ruf jr. · April 19, 2008, 09:17:10 AM

That's a point oldman. There's no true solution. It makes us all get sick.
On the Zimbabwe Topic I was writing about being on your way. Learning. You can put it in this topic too. And again: It's easier said than done, but our only chance of improving society. Being open minded and not letting our feelings of hate and sorrow rule our minds. And let me emphasize again. Rehab can be a very dangerous thing. So I'm on your side Cherry.

georg ruf jr. · April 19, 2008, 09:20:02 AM

Quote from: Patricia Lotte on April 19, 2008, 09:15:14 AM
Although I think that justice in this region can be barbaric, I am all for the death penalty in certain cases. For those sentenced to life, it should be LIFE without parole. I don't believe that time behind bars makes things right. Definately not for the victim and their family, and definately not for the rapist or murderer. If they were able to commit such a horrifc crime once, they will do it again. More is done nowadays to reinstate criminals than to assist victims.

That's true Patricia. The highest cost per day in a psychiatry in Germany are spent on the forenic patients. They're spending a LOT more...
The victims stay victims and often very helpless...
Often are victims of rape the rapests of tomorrow.
This subject is realy tough.

Dalene Steenkamp (Coetzee) · April 19, 2008, 09:50:18 AM

That's my point also. Openly on this forum I can ask Cherry who had assisted their family after her sister was murdered? For about 20 years that man freely walked around, then once he was behind bars, he got the better treatment still. Did anybody try to contact them as a family again and offered help or assistance from the side of government or society funds? I don't think so. The guilty party gets the psyciatric help and evaluations - not the victims or relatives of the vitims who are also traumatised just as deeply.

Life sentences. Who pays for that? You, me, and once again - the victim. The worst of all is that the victim or his/her relatives has to pay to protect, feed, house, dress, the healthcare and education the purpotraitor.

I stick to my point - no matter what race or gender - if you commit a crime like this your are not fit to walk amonst human or animal on the face of this earth!