Rape in Oranjemund!

[georgswa (Georg Ruf) (RIP)]

The worst part was that he was a repeat offender who had already had run ins with the law before, and had been deemed safe to live among normal people again.

I would say the person (s) that set him free due to wrong judgement, should be taken to reponsibilty.

They would in future be more carefull with the judgement.

If you fail and cause such disasters in your job, they will also have you.

But these are people from the medical trade, feel like little gods, you can not get hold of them

The same counts for justice.

We saw wrong judgemnt 2 days ago in Hamburg.

Two demonstrations wer banned, a court ruled against the banning. Now just look what happened then.......

I dont need that kind of freedom, when they made our constitution and gave the rights to demonstrate, they had different thoughts about it.

I could carry on with many examples..............

When my freedom and safety is worth less then the freedom of those choatic parties then we have lost the battle for a better world.

All that sweet talk will not help.............

I have spoken and want to be heard !!!!

Nothing to do with hate and revenge, just plain common sense i would say.

Different Generation i guess   

[SandyB]

On the  front  page of  the weekend Argus ..  The  face of a double killer ...Heinrich van Rooyen .. raped and murdered two girls in Knysna  over 2 and a half years ago ..  there has been a long  drawn out case with lots of "good" lawyering  trying to punch holes in  the states case with technicalities   . the lawyering  continued despite the lawyers seeing  an overwhelming amount of smoke that  would  indicate  that  there was indeed a fire .. well all the "good" lawyering could not  get him off .. we  have one  of  the few cases where  fair  justice is done and he has got a 25 yr sentence .. it  should  have  been  doble  that for  the two lives .. but   at least the  system  did not  let down  the parents  of  those  girls .. what amazes me is how  a  lawyer can defend someone  when  there is  an  overwhelming  amount of  evidence ?? on  the  counterside .. the  fred  vander Vyfer  who  was  aquitted  of  bludgeoning his girlfriend to  death  .. the cops  were sloppy did not  do a good job and  where in  fact  downright dishonest  to  the  point of  planting evidence  in  their  haste to  get  a conviction  ..  if it  were not  for  good forensics he  would  in all probabilty have gone to  jail  with  the  surface evidence  putting  a  lot of doubt on his  involvement .. but  then who  knows ?   Yes Georg  they .. the lawyers .. sloppy  judges and  law  enforcement shoulld  indeed  be  held  accountable  if  a  travesty occurs  where a dangerous  person  is  let  loose on  society again ..
Sad  fact  is  no  system is  perfect .. but  a  bit  more  accountabilty  would  help  create a  bit  more  balance ..
If that  does  not  work  out  .. then  unfortunately we  have  to  move  on  from  the  tragedy , rebuild  our  lives , no  mater how  difficult it  may  be  feeling  cheated  out  of seeing  justice done .. and  put  ones  faith in  the  divine  retribution  ,, again  not  garuanteed ,, but seems to happen  enough ..

[bobbysmith]

this topic evokes a serious passion within me,we all have our individual thoughts ,you and me are entitled to our thoughts and beliefs,i am of the firm belief that if a person takes anothers life and is proven in a court of law ,they pay the ultimate price,sandy you have no children,i have no children,imagine if your most loved one was murdered/raped or both,i cant think ,with raw emotion ,you going to invite the perpertrator around to the pub for a wee swally,i would,given the circumstances,shot gun in hand,get my drift ,i would do what society cant or wont do,for fear of infringing the rapist/murderers human rites.bollocks to their rites,train your thoughts to the victims and those who are left to pick the pieces up,my heart goes out to cherry allcock and her family,this happend in our mids, also to the other people who have not had closure,i do not believe that these persons can be rehabillated,try as you mite,it cant be done.ive worked with murderes,arsinists,rapists and pedeophiles,no amount of so called TREATMENT,works,im with my good friend FLORRIE,if it happened to you,you would change your stance,georg jnr ,ive read your very liberal posts and together with sandy  i take on board your persieved understading of these disturbed perpertrators,i feel you are excluding the real victims and their families and loved ones

[DUNJA WRBKA]

Bobby, its amazing how much your life changes when you have a child.  Please believe me your views on many things change when you have the responsibility of another life in your hands.  I cannot and do not want to even begin to imagine what I would do if anyone had to harm my child.  I really do not know how people cope after having lost a child, let alone to a murderer or even having to deal with their child being a victim of rape.  I do not think there were be enough people to hold me back from taking revenge.  I really do not care a ticky if anyone agrees with me on "an eye for an eye" or not.  Until its happend to you I believe that one then should rather not try and pass judgement or debate what is right or wrong.

[georg ruf jr.]

I think Sandy nailed it with his last post. Karma will catch up with these people sooner or later, in ways they don't expect. Call it Devine intervention if you want, somewhere out there somebody is watching, and no crime will go unpunished, whether it's in this life or the next.

Yepp!

[georg ruf jr.]

The worst part was that he was a repeat offender who had already had run ins with the law before, and had been deemed safe to live among normal people again.

I would say the person (s) that set him free due to wrong judgement, should be taken to reponsibilty.

They would in future be more carefull with the judgement.

If you fail and cause such disasters in your job, they will also have you.

But these are people from the medical trade, feel like little gods, you can not get hold of them

The same counts for justice.

We saw wrong judgemnt 2 days ago in Hamburg.

Two demonstrations wer banned, a court ruled against the banning. Now just look what happened then.......

I dont need that kind of freedom, when they made our constitution and gave the rights to demonstrate, they had different thoughts about it.

I could carry on with many examples..............

When my freedom and safety is worth less then the freedom of those choatic parties then we have lost the battle for a better world.

All that sweet talk will not help.............

I have spoken and want to be heard !!!!

Nothing to do with hate and revenge, just plain common sense i would say.

Different Generation i guess   

True words oldman!

[georg ruf jr.]

Has anybody ever imagined what it could be like being in the situation of being allowed to kill the person that killed your beloved?
Just you and the murderer eye in eye. All on your own in a room nowing this person has excepted his destiny and will not try to defend himself.

This is a very emotional debate. The experiance I've made with emotional debates was (including myself obviously), if we are many we are right.
This is a state we had in Europe in the 1930s. People believed right was on their side, because others had done things to them (Versailles treaty after WW1 for eg).
After WW2 so many people felt so ashamed. It started off with the belief of doing right. Justice seemed near. The Arier thought they were higher than anybody else in the world and all "dirt" had to be destroyed. German soldiers, the SS, Gestapo ect. moved across the country and then Europe "practicing" justice. Rape, murder, looting ect. Their belief was that this is right. They felt they were on the safe side.

My comparison is the belief, not the devestation caused. The belief that I'm doing right...

[Michael Alexander]

Our Animal instinct takes over.... your wife and daughter has just been raped and murdered, their naked, limp bodies lie in a pool of blood, your wifes eyes still warm, wide with fear....your daughter, oh your precious daughter.... how she must have suffered.....for a brief moment you could hear her as an innoccent child, playing in the garden, down by the tree's, how you grabbed her unprotective hands, swinging her around....swinging her higher and higher , her laughter growing with each swing.....you... her father, her protector...her knight ... and now she lies half off the bed, her long brown hair, now matted in her rose blood..., head hanging over the bed, lifeless....laughter forever silenced.... Yet, you had the culprit, there he stood, defencless now......since you wrestled the firearm from his murdering red covered hands..... he stands shaking, knowing what he has done......panicking what you are about to do........

Now are you gonna be a liberal european and call the liberal cops....so that the liberal courts can give him a liberal sentence with a liberal phsycologist....to reform him...or are you gonna plug that fu*ker slowly...letting him feel....letting him feel that hurt...that they must have felt......

[Patricia Lotte]

I think there are certain circumstances where no human being should be expected to forgive and let justice take its course. You would a a coward to just sit back and not take things into your own hands. Your life is shattered by the loss ... what more would you have to lose?

[georg ruf jr.]

I'm not talking about emotions. I'm trying to see facts.
The situation you describe is what all people experianced by the aggresor Germany in WW2. In return Russians Americans ect. revenged themselves on German women. Did that realy help anybody???
All men, no matter what nation, came home as loving husbands and fathers. Who were the looters, murderers, rapists?
Do I know what my grandfathers and their brothers did in war.
These things that happened here, happened under certain sercumstances. Just the way everything happens under certain sercumstances.
I'm just trying to understand. Don't want to take the blame off anybody.
When I hear news like the story of the Austrian Father, I always feel very sorry for the victoms. Often I just try not to take notice of what's in the papers. Especialy in this case, it's so unbelievable....
Those now are my feelings. They have nothing to do with my opinion.
If all humans would live according to what they felt is right, we would have anarchy. Anarchy always get's you to have a dictator in the end. Humans are in the end like animals. The strong will survive and the weak do as they're told. Also something we've learned in European history in the 20th centuary.

[SandyB]

I go back to  my words in an earlier posting  << Whoo man  life  is  indeed not  easy ....we  have to make  the  calls  and hope that  they  are  the  best  at  the time ...   >>  and <<  Perfectly understood .. I still dont knnow how Amys parents got it right ..   we are indeed primitive beings just below the surface  .. so yes revenge is actually a normal call when  one of our  own is hurt or killed .. >>   Or Dunja saying << Until its happend to you I believe that one then should rather not try and pass judgement or debate what is right or wrong. >> 
I have been in  a situation  where the cops had to  restrain me  from  skewering a  lowlife  with a sword cos  he  had  hurt  someone I  loved , and I  was about to  do  it  right in  front of them  when i caught up with him at the same time as the cops  ??   I was frothing mad  .. Animal   instinct ?/ yes indeed .. not  ashamed of it  .. only  problem is  where would it have got me .. ?/
This  is  a highly emotive topic  with many views  that if  one  reads  carefully into  all   ultimately actually  head in the  same  direction and I think at times  we pick up the thread of  what hits us in the gut ..
Jnr .. the past is the past in what happened in Germany many years ago .. hopefully  there are enough laws in  place to  prevent a recurrence .. same in this  country . it too  has  a  somewhat  shameful past .. but i am not  going to feel  guilty or carry a guilt that will prevent me from  wanting  to  see  good  fair  and  appropriate justice  prevail ..
On the ' forgiveness" like  said i dont  quite know how Amys parents did it , but  if  it  worked for them  then  so  be it ..   they saw another  wisdom  in  not  letting  it  cripple  them  ,, the perpetrators got their  day in court  , and  they  did everything in  their  power to  move  on  and not  let  it  cripple them . If all  else fails  then I  believe  there  is  the  divine  retribution of the  wheel  turns ...

Simple premise  and possibly a closure to  this  one  for  me  is  ..
Good  laws .. good  justice  system ,  responsible  lawyering , appropriate  sentencing ..  accountabilty  of  the  law enforcement , judges , lawyers , even those  that commit  perjury ..  cos  thats where a lot goes wrong ..

[Michael Alexander]

.....and as time goes by, the younger generation forget, then we change the laws......then it starts all over again.... Man has never learned from his past..... we don't care for the future...we live for now.....

[SandyB]

Yes  we  see it  over and over .. the younger generation  forget .. it  remains for those of us with good conscience to keep  on pushing for  things to be right .. for those with kids .. instill  good  moral  values  in  the hope they carry them forward  .. for  those without make  your voice heard in whatever way you can  .. and Mike all we can do is live in hope , its one  of  the enduring  qualities of  mankind ..

[Rhona]

Extremely emotional topic - I personally believe Karma will get you in the end...........

[Carl Wrbka]

Yepp, wonderfull thing this Karma. A few good examples: Jeffrey Dahmer - Beaten to death with a mop handle whils't in jail, Rashied Staggie - Burnt alive by the parents of his victims, The guy in Delmas who cut his dog's head off with a chainsaw - Died painfully in a car accident a week after being convicted, etc etc

The nice thing about the legal system in SA is what happens to convicted rapists and child molesters once they arrive at prison. :bagno1:  Carefull now, don't drop the soap...