Could this really be ??

[SandyB]

I got  one of these slide shows about the holocaust  .. its content about how the Americans made sure that enough pictures were taken  etc  so that the world  could never forget  the extent of this human  rights travesty .. graphic pictures   with captions and yes sayng  we should never forget lest mankind  repeats .. ( and yes we do get repeats  on  different scales and scenario  ..  xenophobia here in SA  .. ethnic  cleansing in  african countries , bosnia etc ..
The  one  clip  mentioning this .. now  I wonder  is  it  true ..  have the Brits  as they have  pandered to the loony  left in banning  Noddy  etc  ..now pandering to minorities  who  started off as guests  in what still is a predominantly anglo saxon protestant country ?? are they sacrificing  their  moral  stand  to pander ..

Its the interenet  so many  untruths are circulated as well  so I  put   it  to the  members who are  staying in the UK ..  is this  indeed  true ??
Fact  is  the  holocaust  did happen , an atrocity  of that scale could not be made up  and if this  is  true then  the  authorities in the UK are doing  their folk a huge dis -service

[Michael Alexander]

SANDY! tHIS IS NOW GOING TO FAR..... THE BRITS ARE GONNA SCREW THEMSELVES(IF THEY HAVE NOT ALREADY) BEING SO LIBERAL.......

Uttter tosh this..... Man, it's not surprising all the anglo saxons are heading to OZ and New Zealand.....

[Michael Alexander]

What about all the Brits that lost their lives in WW2......?

[SandyB]

Seems  they have forgotten that  too ??

[Michael Alexander]

It's not surprising that the National Party is making a comeback there..... But , I fear it is too late......... the damage has been done, glad to be living in Namibia......

   

[Chris Macpherson]

Hi Guys, Holocaust very touchy subject to me espespialey [spelling?] Are the brits now bowing down to the ''Slams" now.What do they want now? My mom lived her last years at an old age place and one of the people i met there had the tattoo on her arm so to me it is very real. One of the people you work with,Sandy, and you know who believes it never happened.

[Bob Molloy]

Hi Guys,

Sorry to disillusion you, but that picture was not of concentration camp victims, it was taken in Dresden the day after Allied aircraft had destroyed the city by fire. The giveaway is the damaged buildings. There were no double-story buildings in the camps. You'll find similar pictures on a Google page of Dresden photos taken after the raid. Several hundred thousand civilians died in the Dresden raid - that was really a holocaust (i.e. death by fire). The real crime here was that it was an unnecessary raid - it was a defenceless city, there was no air resistance and Germany was already on the point of surrender. The bombing was carried out for no military purpose other than to satisfy Allied egos.

Re the "Holocaust", I know of no-one who denies it, most such people object to the fact that the term has been hijacked to serve the purposes of only one group of victims. 
There were in fact a total of 55 million dead as a result of WW2 - and here is the shocker - of that total some 15 million German civilians died AFTER THE WAR at hands of the Allies. That was the true Holocaust. For an in-depth background on the history, read "Gruesome Harvest" by Ralph Franklin Keeling.

If anyone finds this subject of real interest and not simply as an ooh-aah passing phase. Google the following:

DETERMINED STARVATION POLICY FORBADE EVEN PRIVATE RELIEF
http://www.nazi- lauck-nsdapao. com/eng-uk- 008.htm

See also: Allied bombing of Dresden.

As for the "Slams" as Michael so engagingly calls them, we've also been fed a diet of hocus-pocus by the Neo-cons on that subject, the idea being to soften you up enough for another war.

But be warned, this subject is sickmaking. It will destroy your illusions as to who are the good guys and who the bad guys, and uncover a few of the lies that have been fed to us over the years. Instead, better go watch a Disney movie.
You'll sleep better at nights.
Regards to all,
Bob.

[SandyB]

Its the interenet  so many  untruths are circulated as well  so I  put   it  to the  members who are  staying in the UK ..  is this  indeed  true ??
@  Bob .. note the comment in blue  ..No and not dissillusioned ..  as  I  questioned  is  it really true that any reference to the holocaust  has been removed from  the UK curriculum to satisfy  those  that choose to  pretend that  it  did not happen ( to satisfy  their own ends as well ) cos  if so then its a truly sad happening ..
I have colleaugue at work  who denies it happened .. he  even has books that try to  disprove it ...I have told him  that  its irrelevant  if  one life  or  6 million lives  were lost  to  a  twisted ideology  ,, either way  its  sick ..
With reference  to the   slide page  posted , I too had  doubts  because of the wrecked buildings.. but  the  total is about ten pages  with  definite pictures  of  stick thin corpses piled up , people in the concentration camps   as well  , but  that page had the reference  to the UK on it  Maybe  I should have  posted all the pages of the slide show  to pull  more relevance ...
Regarding the  comment  slams ..  we all have  private  feelings about  some people as they too would have about us .. better to  keep them private otherwise one ends up with tit for tat  slams .. infidel   retorts flying back and forth ..
and  yes  war  is a sickmaking and touchy subject .. atrocities from both sides ..and  yes when its all over  its  sometimes difficult  to know who the good and bad guys are .. no illusions there ..
the topic content was " is this indeed true" .. and .. and the follows on being  have we forgotten or  are we  in the process of  forgetting  what a horrble war it was  and  that should be the only relevance ..

[toonfandangl]

Sandy!! I think like all rumours there is a ring of truth some wear !! below was coped from the Internet and as you can see by the date its old news.



Holocaust Rumour
November 10, 2008 · 1 Comment

I received an email chain yesterday about the Holocaust, the extermination of 6 million Jews by the German Nazis in World War 2.  The message reminds us not to forget this tragic historical fact, especially in the face of Holocaust deniers around the world.

However, the possibly good intentions of the author(s) is seriously undermined by a huge error in the presentation.  It claims, "Recently, the U.K. erased the Holocaust from the British School curriculum because it offended the Muslim population beliefs that the Holocaust never took place."  This assertion is categorically false!


And we all no the Internet don't tell porkie pies...................

[SandyB]

Hi Frank ..  too true ... You most probably got the same slide show ... and yes the intent was good ,, but had the same niggling thought about it as it was  not well put together ...  and yes it was undermined  by that very  error ... so what I  did  was pose  it as a question  to the site members in the UK  to try ascertain the truth .... past is past ... errors  of the past  should not be repeated .. sad fact is mankind has a way of forgetting ... so lets just use  its albeit  dodgy content as a reminder , forget  the  comments  of  who  hijacks   these  happenings for their benefit .. another sad fact is  all sides  will do so ... so many agendas ...  I refer to  the denialsist I personally know ,, he  remains a friend  despite his  belief , thats his  choice and yes he has to answer for that one day  so I leave it there ...  evil  is evil and should not be perpetuated ..so lets   leave it there  and  hope  we never again  see it happen ...

A thread from a quote ( cant remember it well )
EVIL  DOES NOT  ALWAYS PRESENT ITSELF  WITH TEETH AND CLAWS BARED ..
IT CAN ALSO BE INSIDIOUS AND STEALTHY , SLOWLY ENTERING  THE  REALM OF GOODTHINKING  PEOPLE .
ERODING BELIEFS   ETC ETC...

THE  MESSSAGE HERE IS  FOR  US ALL TO USE OUR CONSCIOUS  CONSCIENCE AT EACH STEP AND EACH LIFE DECISION WE MAKE ...

[toonfandangl]

Hello Sandy!! everything we see and everything we hear is not always what it appears.

Last week in the papers and on TV it was announced that they were going to release Abdelbasset Ali al-Megrahi the Lockerbie bomber
then later on this appeared.

Lockerbie bomber's release 'delayed by pressure from Hillary Clinton'

The man is EVIL and should be locked away for the rest of his LIFE and we as a society will have to bare the costs.
There are people who will say NO the Death penalty is the only way.


I watched a program the other night a brother and sister killed one child and maimed the other child (drugs of course) the
brother was sentenced to death, but only if HE requests that it should be done.

Jury gives Beau Maestas the death penalty, sister cuts a deal

Beau Maestas - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



There have been 11 of the 12 executions in Nevada were the prisoners have asked to be executed


Perpetrators, collaborators, bystanders, victims: we can be clear about three of these categories. The bystander, however, is the fulcrum. If there are enough notable exceptions, then protest reaches a critical mass. We don't usually think of history as being shaped by silence, but, as English philosopher Edmund Burke said,  'All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing'.............Frank

[Sean]

Poor old Queenie, she must be wondering what the heck just happened.  During her shift England when from having her flag flying over a sizable chunk of the globe to a little island that is even confused about its own identity.

I'll never forget a placard that an Aussie spectator was holding up at one of the Ashes tests a few years back.  It read "We may have lost the rugby but you lost Hong Kong!" 

[Bob Molloy]

Hi All,
           This thread has certainly jumped around a bit from Sandy's orginal post, n'less it's all grist to the mill of understanding. It's good to read the various contributions, each one adds a little bit to clear the picture.
To go back to my original point, there are no "holocaust deniers", that is a word coined by special interest groups to switch off critical thinking, along with other emotionally loaded words such as "terrorist", "anti-semitic", "racist", "nazi", "fascist" etc. Throw any one of these into a conversation and the user has done two things: smeared the other side so that any further discussion appears to be either biased or "evil" (now there's another emotionally loaded and equally unhelpful word) and brought the debate to a stop, which of course is the purpose of these words.
For example, would you really want to waste time listening to a fascist or a nazi, or worse a terrorist or anti-semite talking? To begin with, what could they possible add to what you already know, and in any case with our present level of understanding of these words they are pushing a barrow uphill before they even start.
Next time you read a newspaper or hear a discussion and these words pop up (unless the words themselves are the point of discussion) it's a sign that you are either being led by the nose (we all hate terrorists, right?) or there is a character or other smear intended. Either way you are misled.
Watch out too for even more innocuous words such as "settlements" when talking about Israel theft of Palestinian land, instead of "occupied territories" which has now been erased from newspaper vocabularies in place of the more politically correct term.
This must be getting boring so won't prolong it, except to mention the hundreds of "stick thin" corpses on display at the "death camps" (another emotional jolt there). Post-war forensics found these people died of typhus and starvation, not torture and maltreatment as heard at Nuremberg.
My Gawd, isn't that bad enough? It is, possibly even worse than death by gassing (another myth). The reality is that all Europe starved in the last three months of the war, and Germany most of all.
Her harbours, railroads and road bridges has been destroyed, and all incoming food supplies blockaded. From December onwards people started dying, first by the scores, then by the hundreds and even thousands. The prisoners in question had all incoming food supplies cut off, in addition to overcrowding from incoming inmates from other camps fleeing the advancing Russians. The result was typhus (from the lice which flourished in overcrowded conditions and poor hygiene) and starvation.
Eventually the corpse load rose so high that all attempt to bury or cremate them ceased. That was the situation when the Allies arrived.
There's plenty of soundly based evidence from reliable historians on these points if anyone is interested.
Regards,
Bob.

[Bob Molloy]

The Lockerbie bombing is more and more looking like a false flag operation. This is the latest from a well-respected London journalist.
Nor will this the be last we hear of this. If we're lucky, some very dumb journo (he would have to be dumb - his life would be forfeit) might just finger the real culprits who I bet don't live more than a border or two from Libya.
Lockerbie 'bomber' release was a face-saver
4:00AM Tuesday Aug 25, 2009
By Gwynne Dyer

 
Abdel Baset Ali al-Megrahi was an intelligence agent. Since he worked for the Libyan Government, he probably did some bad things.

But he probably did not do the specific bad thing for which he was sentenced to 27 years in prison in Scotland.

He served only eight years. He was released on compassionate grounds last Thursday by the Scottish Justice Secretary, Kenny MacAskill, and flew home to Libya.

He is dying of cancer, but his release outraged the Americans whose relatives died aboard Pan Am Flight 103 in December 1988. They believe that al-Megrahi is a mass murderer who should die in jail - but that is not necessarily so.

There were also British victims of the attack, and almost none of their relatives think that al-Megrahi should have been in jail at all. As their spokesman, Jim Swire, put it: "I don't believe for a moment that this man was involved [in the bombing]."

Back in 1988-89, Western intelligence services saw the bombing of Pan Am 103 as an act of revenge. The US warship Vincennes had shot down an Iranian Airbus five months before, killing all 290 passengers, and the Iranians were getting even.

(The US was then secretly backing Saddam Hussein's war against Iran, and the Vincennes, operating illegally in Iranian territorial waters, shot down the airliner thinking that it was an Iranian fighter.)

There was some evidence for this "Iranian revenge" theory. In 1989 German police found the same kind of bomb that brought down Pan Am 103 in a house in Frankfurt that were used by the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine - General Command. This organisation was based in Syria, and Syria and Iran were allies, so maybe ...

But then, in 1990, Saddam Hussein invaded Kuwait. Washington needed Arab countries like Syria to join the war against Saddam to make the liberation of Kuwait looked like a truly international effort. Syria's price for sending troops was removal from America's most-wanted list. Suddenly Syria was no longer the prime suspect in the Pan Am case - and if Syria was out, so was Iran.

But more Americans died on Pan Am 103 than in any other terrorist attack before 9/11. Somebody had to take the fall. Libya was the obvious candidate, because it had supported various terrorist attacks in the past.

Soon new evidence began to appear. It pointed to al-Megrahi, who had been working as a security officer for Libyan Arab Airlines in Malta in 1988. A Maltese shopkeeper identified him as the man who bought children's clothing like that found in the suitcase that contained the bomb that brought down Pan Am 103.

It was pretty flimsy evidence, but Colonel Gaddafi, Libya's ruler, was desperate to end the Western trade embargo against his country. He never admitted blame in the Pan Am affair, but he handed al-Megrahi and a colleague over for trial in a Western court.

Al-Megrahi's trial took place in 2001. His colleague was freed, but he was jailed for 27 years (in Scotland, because Pan Am 103 came down in Lockerbie). As time passed, however, the case began to unravel.

The Maltese shopkeeper who had identified al-Megrahi, Tony Gauci, turned out to be living in Australia, supported by several million dollars the Americans had paid him for his evidence.

The allegation the timer for the bomb had been supplied to Libya by the Swiss manufacturer Mebo turned out to be false. The owner of Mebo, Edwin Bollier, revealed that he had turned down an offer of $4 million from the FBI in 1991 to testify that he had sold his MST-13 timers to Libya.

One of Bollier's former employees, Ulrich Lumpert, did testify at al-Megrahi's trial that MST-13 timers had been supplied to Libya - but in 2007 he admitted he had lied at the trial.

And this year it was revealed Pan Am's baggage area at London's Heathrow airport was broken into 17 hours before Pan Am 103 took off. (Scotland Yard knew that 12 years ago, but kept it secret at al-Megrahi's trial.) The theory the fatal bag was put on a feeder flight from Malta became even less likely.

All of which explains why the Scottish Criminal Cases Review Commission announced in 2007 that it would refer al-Megrahi's case to the Court of Criminal Appeal in Edinburgh because he "may have suffered a miscarriage of justice".

The review commission's decision caused a crisis, because a new court hearing would reveal how shoddy the evidence was. Happily for London and Washington, al-Megrahi was now dying of cancer, so a deal was possible.

He would give up his plea for a retrial, no dirty linen about the original trial would be aired in public, and he would be set free.

A miserable story, but hardly a unique one. A man who was probably innocent of the charges against him, a loyal servant of the Libyan state who was framed by the West and hung out to dry by his own Government, has been sent home to die.

*

[Haiko N.]

Fact  is  the  holocaust  did happen , an atrocity  of that scale could not be made up  and if this  is  true then  the  authorities in the UK are doing  their folk a huge dis -service

Actually, it IS in fact quite easy to make up.
Firstly, I don't want to be seen as an anti-semite, a hater or racist here. I have Jewish friends.
Have you ever seen the names of six million Jews? Wikipedia only lists around a few, who likely died of Typhus or starvation nearer to the end of the war.
If you have a good internet connection, go to http://www.holocaustdenialvideos.com and download some of the videos there for a good insight on some suspicious aspects of this over-used idea.
Another good place to check out would be http://www.vho.org. There they have some pretty good reading material available for free download on this subject.
See also:
http://www.codoh.com
http://www.ihr.org
http://www.zundelsite.com
http://www.nazigassings.com/
http://www.adelaideinstitute.org/

Please keep your mind open and actually look into this before judging anything.
Thanks!