All You Catholic's Out There

[Delia]

PS. Florrie - if you do decide to read "Conversations with God", i'd really be interested to hear what you think.....i know the books are VERY controversial amongst dogmatic religions but the logic in them just sits right with me.  I fully believe in tolerance for everybody's beliefs and would never be so arrogant as to say "this is the way and the only way to think"........what works for some doesn't necessarily work for others.

Please, in no way was i having a go at your beliefs, i respect and admire you for standing up for what you believe in and am open minded enough and secure enough in my own beliefs not to get offended by you saying you don't believe in God.  There's an old saying, "if you don't stand up for something, you'll fall for anything".....so........you go girl!!!!  Hope to chat soon.

[Florrie van Zyl (Muir)]

@ Delia, will read Conversations with God, just very busy till end Oct, will let you know when I have read it but won't be soon. I won't say that I don't believe in God altogether, but I definitely don't believe in God as portrayed in the Bible and I definitely don't believe in Jesus especially that he is the only way to eternal life. I find that statement extremely arrogant. I am sick and tired of "Christians" pointing fingers, if they were true "Christians", they would be embracing everyone (non-believers too) and living their lives like a shining example, I'm sorry but there isn't one Christian that I know, that I can look up to and make me want to have what they have or be like them.

"It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring" - Carl Sagan

[Michael Alexander]

    A'la   COSMOS!

[Delia]

Well said Florrie (or should I say Carl Sagan)........about sums it up.  I don't either believe in the God of the bible and the fact that Jesus is the only way to salvation, i believe he was a prophet that came for the west (like buddha & krishna came for the east) to teach us the way to salvation through ourselves. The bible was full of karma and reincarnation (taught by Jesus) until 6AD when Constantine decided to take out what didn't serve the church and keep the masses enslaved.  They knew that if people found out that they were actually in control of their own destiny as spirit on the path back to Source, they'd lose power and control and the church would crumble.  Keep them fear based was the idea so everything to do with karma & reincarnation was removed from the bible. So no, like you, i don't believe in the God of the bible, too many contradictions and inconsistencies. 

With my dad being so involved in the church I am so thankful he introduced me to a loving God who is above pettiness and being offended by our actions - that always confused me as a kid - one minute we're being told that God is all loving, then the next minute he's a vengeful, fearful God who's gonna condemn us to hell - huh, which one is it????  Contradiction if you ask me and the fact that the churches who preach this message don't even see this contradiction blows me away.  So yeah, just like i said to Georg, i think we could have some good chats Florrie.........as reading between the lines, we have a similar outlook.

And you right, I've also yet to meet one "true" Christian that practices what they're supposed to - one of the most important teachings - TOLERANCE!!!  Very narrow minded...........I've been told by some that i'm condemned to hell for my view on God, etc and what He is ie. 'cos i' don't conform to dogmatic religions, don't go to church 'cos i believe God is everywhere as the energy of pure Love (not an old man with a long white beard sitting on a chair in the clouds counting our every "sin") - i don't have to go somewhere specific to talk to Him; i go to mediums; meditate; do tarot cards; go for energy healing, etc. ie. quite involved in the esoteric side of life - i've been told it's the devil's work - funny, since i've been on that path my life's been filled with inner peace, calm and happiness.  Love to know how they'd explain that one?????????? When i tell them i'm only doing what Jesus said ie. "Look within, the kingdom of heaven is within you" - they're lost for words, don't quite know what to say to that one??? I wish they would just open their minds a bit and explore a lot of the literature that's out there on the true message of his teachings and on spirituality itself instead of twisting it to suit themselves, and more so, stop just accepting what is shoved down their throats ie. start thinking for themselves a bit.........

Anyway, we could chat for hours about this, it's so difficult to put one's outlook on a topic like this into a forum discussion, it's so vast and the matrix is so wide..........so till next time,

[georg ruf jr.]

Great words Delia.

The system of fear still works. Even in the so civilized industrial world.

[Michael Alexander]

The two tourists from Texas that I was showing around the other day and myself had quite an interesting discussion on religion, both being scientific types, do not agree with religion.... and pointed out an interesting fact..... when a child dies of Luekemia or gets hit by a car.... the church will console the parents saying...the lord had a plan...or the lord is testing you..... Aw! Come on, what kind of test would this be?



It must be noted, I too am not a fan of religion, but do believe in a Great Architect... that covers all of our so called man made beliefs.....

[Delia]

Aah Mike - the Great Architect - you a freemason?  My dad was and so was Lance, and I often heard that term.........i've always thought it a very good title.

And yah, i don't believe God tests us.......how would he decide who to test and on what basis? On this topic, as he says in "Conversations........." ........"by what rule of thumb would i decide?"

[Rhona]

@ Mike - things happen for a reason; whether we understand the reason straight off or whether we find out along the line..........we might not understand it and we might not want to accept it - but none the less we cannot stop it and so eventually we have to come to terms with it...

[georg ruf jr.]

I don't there's a reason for what is happening. I believe man tries to understand in a "human" kind of way: everything needs a reason. God is not like ma. God is just there. Almighty and lets things happen. There's no reason for that.
Things just seem to fit together. Like birth and death ect.

[Rhona]

Maybe so Jnr - but we all have our own ways of getting us through the hard times and heartache.......we deal with things differently and what some of us accept others cannot. For me; I believe what's for you wont pass you - whether it's good or bad and whether you understand the reason for the occurance or not

[georg ruf jr.]

My words Rhona.
I was just putting my point of view.
It's important to respect the differences in belief!

[Paula Gottsch (Willson)]

now's the time to be jolly, la lal la laaaa la!
let's all get sloshed and have a party lalala laaaaa la la


   anyone??
Hmmm, be warned people, I know how to do this on my own!   

[georg ruf jr.]

God gave us the booze tooo... 

[Delia]

Want to share some humour from the book i've just finished reading called "Past Lives Future Lives" by Dr Bruce Goldberg - he's a hypnotherapist specialising in parapsychology - he regresses and progresses people back to past and into future lives.  To end the chapter on reincarnation, he says "Don't worry if you don't believe in reincarnation now.  You will in your next life".  I loved that - my sense of humour.

[Paula Gottsch (Willson)]