Cancer Rates of Oranjemunders!

Michael Alexander · February 10, 2008, 08:16:29 AM

I don't need a babe magnet.... I have Michele..... ( bonus points for saying that)..

I read a very interesting book..non fiction...about children under the age of 6 who can recall there previous lifes.... damn interesting and holds a lot of weight in the theory of re incarnation.....

I'm not a big religious person, but there must be something/somebody out there...

georg ruf jr. · February 10, 2008, 09:56:09 AM

It's not just outside Michael.
"It's" everywhere. Whatever it is...

Michael Alexander · February 10, 2008, 10:40:47 AM

ET... phone home!

Diana Rudd (Boehme) · February 11, 2008, 07:53:21 AM

Quote from: Michael Alexander on February 10, 2008, 08:16:29 AM
I don't need a babe magnet.... I have Michele..... ( bonus points for saying that)..

Your mother taught you well AND you listerned

SandyB · February 11, 2008, 10:23:11 AM

Phew ! quite a lot of deep thinking and speaking from the heart going on here .. that is so good and anyone that gets offended must have some doubts about their belief systems that are being stirred around by comment ... the speaking from the heart is also a sign that yes we have reached a point in our lives where we believe in ourselves a lot more and take it as our right to question and explore so long as we do not harm ourselves or fellow man ... as sort of philosophy I have had for a good portion of my life ... if one took the reincarnation part as absolute then it would be beacuse I am a so called " old soul " ... each to his own .. what you believe will surely affect how you live and how you die and also what happens to your soul / life force / call it what you may after the eve nt of living a life ... I have a very simple philosophy in that we are made up of X amount of elements ( 9 if I recall ) and water .. Ok take all the ingredients mix them .. what you got ?? possibly a good base for a soup .. For that simple mix of elements to turn into us , and other soup mixes to turn into our animal kingdom and our beautiful plant life then surely there is an innate intelligence or divine force behind it all .. I therefore acknowledge my creator . thank my creator , Would I worship and kowtow ?? Never !! but then if you feel the need to be in that sort of relationship then do so ..
On the subject of Mortality .. tricky one .. so many easier said than dones in life .. what works for one will not work for the other .. I myself have recently suffered loss dealing with the pain and yes if you allow it to overwhelm you it will paralyze your mind , even kill you if you let it .. and once again I face mortality .. I have to accept change .. change things accordingly .. what gets me more is not so much how it affects me . but how it affects others around me , their pain hurts me more than any I have experienced ... I have always been fearless in travelling through time .. the 20/s 30/s 40/s 50/s I have egged them on never recall a midlife crisis , but maybe that cos I am a so called " failed adult and failed protestant " .. I recall getting very emotional when I turned 50 .. only reason was that I could not believe that I had got so far and was overwhelmed with gratitude that me and my body had come so far reasonably unscathed .. my mortality ?? right now not afraid cos I have peace in my heart ..

Michael Alexander · February 11, 2008, 11:11:49 AM

Mmmh! Let's get even deeper...

You are a family of 5 ... mom& dad and your two sisters go to church all the time, their faith is unshakable, their belief unwavering...you on the other hand are a big sinner, fornicating,murder, robbery to name a few....but one thing about you...you love your family very much...they in turn , blindly love you...every sunday afternoon you all meet up, have a family dinner or lunch, hell you guys are close and cannot be split...no matter what....

So judgement day comes, and the four rightous members of your family go upstairs...and you take the pole downstairs... heaven was meant to be a happy place, but due to the fact that you will never be there...ever again..... your family are not complete and happy.... how does this work?

SandyB · February 11, 2008, 11:27:08 AM

?? phew Mike of the curveball questions !! The term " unconditional love " should overcome all that dogma and fear of heaven and hell and the family as a unit have choice as well ..

Ok shoot me down for what I will share now ...

I had a good friend who finally passed on at the age of 80 a couple of years ago .. he was a devout catholic .. he was not happy in his body in the last few years of his life , it made him crochety and dificult to deal with at times ... after he finally shuffled off the mortal coil he would come to me in dreamstate about once a year .. a sort of reportback thing how he was doing as we alweays had deep conversations ... at least thats what I take it for .. anyhow the last time he visited my dreamland he told me straight to the point that if he knew then what he knows now he would have definitely hastened his exit from earthlife and not waited for God to take him as he was tought to believe .. his final words of " there is no judgement here .. it only exists within man to judge and be judged , or be judgemental " .. it is the last time he visited dreamland .. he reached a point of understanding and peace ...

Michael Alexander · February 11, 2008, 11:37:50 AM

THIS IS JUST A DEBATE, AND IS NOT INTENDED TO INSULT ANYONE"S BELIEFS:

Religion is a man made creation, religion has been used to the benefit of many, including various church groups...I remeber watching a program on discovery, where a comment was made .. that a certain pope a few hundred years back stated.... "This thing religion has served us well"

I on the other hand to not hasten to church, and one only see's me there as a mark of respect for a funeral or a wedding.... I say this ... but i am still strong in my conviction that there is "somebody" out there, in Freemasonary it is put in a way, the Great Architect of the Universe.... in order not to offend any particular religion...

When I was about 14, i expereinced two OBE's (out of Body experiences), some of you will be going...oh boy here we go..another nutter, so be it, your belief is yours, but I know what happened to me on those two occasions, frightening, but at the same time enlightening, making me realise, that there is something "bigger" at play here, not religion.... our bodies are indeed on loan to us, we are souls..... there is life ater this... I always made a point after this episode, to remember that as time goes by, we humans tend to forget, start to doubt... and I made a pact with myself there and then to never forget ...thus confirming , always to myself.... that I do not fear death, for I , by my own experience know that there is a life/something after this...

Thats my 2 cents worth...... I respect your religion, your faith.... but I know where I satnd and where I am going...

georg ruf jr. · February 11, 2008, 11:52:22 AM

Thats my 2 cents worth...... I respect your religion, your faith.... but I know where I satnd and where I am going...

[/quote]

that's probably what it's about. Beliving and having faith, which makes you feel sure about not being lost.
But as far as I'm concerned, I believe our spirit lives on. This dosen't mean my soul leaves my body. Spirit is something I leave for the afterworld. It's something the afterworld has for itself. It's not me...

SandyB · February 11, 2008, 11:53:12 AM

WELL PUT AND FROM THE HEART .... AN HONEST EXCHANGE THAT CAN GO ON FOREVER .. LIVE AND LET LIVE ....

Michael Alexander · February 11, 2008, 12:02:35 PM

..in essence then.... the Mystery, that is life!

georg ruf jr. · February 11, 2008, 12:06:12 PM

Quote from: SandyB on February 11, 2008, 11:53:12 AM
WELL PUT AND FROM THE HEART .... AN HONEST EXCHANGE THAT CAN GO ON FOREVER .. LIVE AND LET LIVE ....

Sure SandyB.
Maybe you should start a new topic. I'm sure there'll be enough enthusiasts.

SandyB · February 11, 2008, 12:11:41 PM

Aah ! the mystery that is life .. so well put .. it is this mystery that good friends , soulmates and enlightened souls can share all the time without fear or offence ...

Florrie van Zyl (Muir) · February 11, 2008, 12:31:54 PM

Thanks Mike and Sandy for being so honest, I was worried that I would be shot down for saying what I did, glad there are such open-minded people on this forum. Well, if we are nutcases, at least we are honest nutcases that question things and don't just blindely accept what is fed to us by the masses. We are brave enough to admit that we think differently, even at the cost of being ridiculed by others. I have never had any of the experiences you have had except that I seem to have a memory of existing but not in any physical form, almost like the moment just before you faint, everything is black but nice and warm and fuzzy. So with this in mind, I don't have any fear of dying, I only worry about the ones I will be leaving behind and what effect my going would have on them.
I believe there must be a "Great Architect of the Universe", can't imagine that this universe just happened by accident. It is way too perfect and complex to have just happened. Sandy, your advice from dreamland suits my thinking too, I love the idea that we do not need to worship and lets face it, the humanbeing is so judgemental. Mike, like you said about the family where one goes to hell, the bible says that the head of the family can save his/her family from hell but then that wouldn't be fair on us that don't have a parent with huge faith. One of the reasons why I changed my way of thinking, my first born died 3 days after birth and was never christened, so according to the bible, that little one should be in hell. That bothered me a lot when I was younger. Now I am wiser, I know the bible is written by man and people choose what to enforce and what to discard as the times change.
To quote from a book I've read: Some might find our conclusions shocking, but for us they are merely the simplest and most obvious way of accounting for the evidence we have amassed.

Florrie van Zyl (Muir) · February 11, 2008, 01:01:57 PM

PLEASE NOTE: WHAT FOLLOWS NOW IS NOT TO OFFEND ANYONE OR CHANGE THEIR BELIEFS BUT TO EXPLAIN WHY i BELIEVE WHAT I DO, ie what led to my thinking.

I believe that Jesus did exist but that he was given characteristics stolen from the Pagans. The Pagans glorified a Pagan redeemer, who like Jesus, was said to have ascended to heaven and to have promised to come again at the end of time to judge the quick and the dead. On the same spot where the Pope celebrates the Catholic mass, Pagan priests also celebrated a symbolic meal of bread and wine in memory of their saviour. (This statement is firmly based on available historical sources and the latest scholarly research). This Pagan redeemer was called Osiris-Dionysus, God made flesh, the saviour and "Son of God", his mother was a mortal virgin, he was also born in a acve or humble cowshed on 25 December before 3 shepherds, he offers his followers the chance to be born again through the rites of baptism, he also turned water into wine at a marriage ceremony, he also rode into town on a donkey while people wave palm leaves to honour him, he dies at Eastertime as a sacrifice for the sins of the world, after his death, he descends to hell, on the third day he rises from the dead and ascends to heaven in glory.
Why do we have a cover-up religion?
The Roman Emperor Constantine made Christianity the state religion of the empire. He wanted 'one God, one religion' to consolidate his claim of 'one Empire, one Emporer'. He oversaw the creation of the Nicene creed - the article of faith repeated in churches to this day - and Christains who refused to assent to this creed were banished from the Empire or otherwise silenced.He aradicated all other religions destroyed temples, libraries etc. He wanted a nation that was easier to rule by putting the fear of God in them.

It is easy to believe something MUST be true because everyone else believes it. But the truth often only comes to light by daring to question the unquestionable, by doubting notions which are so commonly believed that they are taken for granted.

We dare think the unthinkable.