Time to kiss your pension goodby.

[Koos]

world stock markets are imploding and taking our pensions/providents fund with.
this is no joke.
a major us bank has allso gone belly up. ( bear stearns)
exspect zero to minus returns for the next couple of years.
:emot78:

[Michael Alexander]

I was watching this in amazement.... the whole stock trading thing seems more like a giant casino.... I was following the story on CNN and it's amazing to see all those exchanges going oneway.... down!

Where is this gonna end?

[Diana Rudd (Boehme)]

At the rate things are going Koos I think I'll came and share your Candy.Well that is if I can find you,or shall I just feel my way to the dark side.

[Mike Stenson (RIP)]

koos is right.
most provident members think their money is safe in the bank, not so.
most of our provident money is invested in the stock market,
when the stock market goes down we follow.
people thought the good times would never end.
namdeb provident fund members were warned about this for the last two years.
i hope our trustees acted on there own warnings but i doubt this. human greed is a funny thing.
so as they say it is time to kak and betaal.

[Michael Alexander]

Hey Mike, how's your shares performing?

[SandyB]

Shares ?  ... paper  paper  worthless  paper ,,,  shares  prices  held  up  by " confidence '  this  confidence  making  the  total  shares  worth  more  than  the  companies  they  are  propping  up ??  You  could  set  up  a  shell  create  a  run  of  "confidence"   and  fleece  people  of  their  money ....   the  dollar   the  currencey  of  a  morally  and  financially  bankrupt  people  being  held  up  by  " confidence '
The  donald  trumps  ( not  to  mention  the  Brett  kebbles )  of the  world  being  granted  all  types  of  finance  by  the  banks   untill  they  lose 
"confidence"  and  then  they  all  call  it  in  again ?   
buy sell  buy  sell   buy  sell   hungry  greedy  sharks  swimming  in  a  cesspool  of  lies  and  confidence trickery  .. maybe  an  earthmover  to  shove  them  all into  the  sea   and  start  afresh ??

[Michael Alexander]

The whole share thing is just a racket.... only person missing is Al Capone!

[Mike Stenson (RIP)]

Watch it Mike or i will have to bring my cat around to give your new dog a pep talk.

[Dalene Steenkamp (Coetzee)]

Mike Stenson  -  you are so right when you say that the trustees of your fund should make the right desicion regarding the underlying funds into wich your pension or providend fund money is invested.  People tend to disregard votings on selection of trustees for funds with the excuse of "I don't know who these guys are anyways".  Make sure you know who the guys are that are on the board of trustees of your fund and hold them responsible.  Get to know these guys - ask the right questions.  Mostly  -  find out what their mandate includes -  weather the rules of the fund as such grant the trustees the right to change funds in corrolation with fund managers.  Also, find out who the fund managers of your funds are -  what is that persons track record in the market with previous or current fund allocations.  Ask questions like what the benchmark performance rate for your specific fund is and if the funds you are investing into is performing according to that benchmark.

Should you not be happy with your current fund choise, ask the managers of your fund if a switch is possible, but also what the internal costs of such a switch would be for you (the amount is usually deducted from your fund value as a once off payment).  People nearing retirement should speak to a good financial advisor regarding their fund choise in the pension of providend fund.  Alternatively  -  ask your company to organize an information session with the internal advisor of the fund to spell out these things for you in order for you to make a well informed decision regarding your fund choise within your fund.

Most funds have a spread of about 4 to 6 combined funds with a diversity in risk range for you to choose from.  Ask them how these funds are compounded (in other words  -  what different listed shares are included into that specific fund to make up the total spread and what the risk ratings of those funds are). 

Nowadays mostly only Government pension funds are fixed benefit funds (funds that has a fixed risk structure regarding death, disability and retirement rate, calculated by figures such as number of years service, salary scale etc.)  Most funds are fixed contribution funds where values are determined by contributions from you and your company and the value gain/loss is directly linked to the fund gain/loss.  The fund spreads are structured and allocated directly into the market (shares or unit trusts).

Ok -  this is my pennie into the thought-box regarding the pension fund issue.  The only other thing I must add  -  do not make hasty decisions in withdrawing money form funds where values have dropped now due to market volatility - mostly the result of such withdrawings are that you are making a reality loss out of a current paper loss.  SPEAK TO YOUR TRUSTED FINANCIAL ADVISOR or if your are clued up enough - do your homework well and then decide what should or should not be done.

[Mike Stenson (RIP)]

The whole share thing is just a racket.... only person missing is Al Capone!

if this racket ever collapses we will all be in the poor house.
nobody will be safe. remember the great depression.

i see SPAR is on the joburg stock exchange.



 

[Michael Alexander]

They were part of TIGER BRANDs, but broke away about 2 or 3 years ago.......

[Dalene Steenkamp (Coetzee)]

Mike & Mike

Al Capone - he made lots of rich guys richer, he made lots of poor guys go bancrupt AND he made lots of rich guys go bancrupt AND he made lots of poor guys go rich.    Moral -  two sides to every story.

So, did'nt the old folks survive the depression?  Bloody hard times, but they pulled through.  To my knowledge, the "birth" of Spar, as it is listed on the stock market today, occured within the depression time.

Stating again  -  market volatility does happen -  it's never a good time for anyone when there is a crash or drop-down (either due to factual influence or sentiments).  Statistics of past market movements show us that our current low index figure after a 22% drop within a 3 month period (last week figures were up to gaining 13% back) still beats top peak index figures of 10 years ago.  Yes, there are a lot of negative influences on global scale that affects us as an emerging market very badly, stemming financial growth in the first quarter of this year to low figures and causing inflation rates to rise alarmingly high.  Still I ask the question  -  are we really experiencing such bad times as we think?

Example:  30 Years ago we were also in a very high inflation scenario (now those are the times we currently refer to as the good old days when you could buy a new car for only R2000-00).  Interest rates were sky high  -  good for the ones who had investments and lived on interest income.  But think  -  house loans:  the bond interest rate then about 22%,  - personal loans:  the interest rate then about 26%.

Back in those days not every young appie starting out could go to the bank with his first payslip to apply for car finance and buy a new car.  Nowadays they can.  Very few people could afford, on their income levels, to buy a house or to have one built.  Today most young people go out and buy their own houses, have two cars etc.  The list can go on and on.

Is the real problem not that we all have become big spenders and have not concentrated enough on the basics that are essential?  This includes myself!  

In my job I come accross scenarios nearly every day where people only realize the need to provide for a good retirement when they only have 10 or less years to go before they have to retire.  Then they are already in such debts with installments exceeding their affordable spendature persentage, that it is impossible for them to direct extra funds towards retirement.  Capital shortfalls are then so big, that it scares the crap out of people and now they start expecting massive unrealistic returns on investments with guarantees included.  They mostly disregard the guarantee factor, for preservation of capital invested, and jump for high risk schemes or funds to try to make up for the times they did not contribute -  the end result is mostly a disaster.  Either these schemes are scams where people loose all their money, or, like now, high risk investments loose share value, resulting in lower capital values.

I am not blind to all the negative things out there.  People are in dire straights due to the fact that income levels cannot keep track with price increases and the inflation bug.  Pensioners are hit the hardest in this "low inflation" time. Contracts signed a few years ago, based on annuity rates of that time, with level income patterns for life long periods, cannot be amended (due to legislation and tax implications etc).  Life annuities with choise of income withdrawal levels exceeding average rates of 10% tend to start digging into capital with a possible end result of capital degeneration in a much faster timespan than originally planned for after retirement.  Lots of other influences also contribute - political impact, productivity levels, job losses etc etc.

My personal believe still:  when planning well in advance you will be able to keep financial "depression" away from your own front door much longer than the person who does not plan.

[SandyB]

@ Dalene .. thaanks for the history and advice .. are you going to  become our personal site advisor .. you  so  right .. plan plan  and be  informed at all times and remember  that it all goes in  cycles ...

[Mike Stenson (RIP)]

i think they should fire Trevor Manual and put Dalene in his job.

[Dalene Steenkamp (Coetzee)]

   They never will..............  with me being to outspoken and wanting to change many a thing in legislation regarding certain taxes

and

even if I were qualified enough for the job.....  no thank you  -  I just love it to much to drink my beer straight from the bottle  -  would never fit in with champane sipping mob, eating caviar that was laddled onto a celery stick with a tiny golden spoon and mostly  -  I just don't want the plastic breast implants that is a must must when you are in positions like that, neither the puffed lips or the lipo sucks or the botox eyelids or whatever the friggen hell it all is.

I like being me.

(After all the discussions and advice, I actually did a profile check on my own pension fund and retirement annuities again for the first time in a year.  I tend to forget that I am my own client also........  so much for appointing me in Trevol Manuel's place!)