Zimbabwe.....

[SandyB]

Actually  it  appears  that the  people  of  Zim   have  indeed  by  their  vote  indicated  that  they  are no  longer  prepared  to  accept  Bob   and  his  antics  and  yes    Bobs  successor  is  an unknown  quantity   they dont  know  what they  going  to  get  but  then  they  have to  take  that gamble ...   also  dont  forget  they  were  very repressed   and  lived  in  fear   so  the step  they  have  taken  is indeed  courageous ...   as  for  the  reverse  racism  etc  I reserve  comment    excepting  to  say  that  lessons  should  be learned  from  the  mistakes  of the  past  and  it  appears it  is  not  happening  so .. 

[georg ruf jr.]

Is giving a vote all you need for the right attitude in life? It may be something to start with, like having an idea...

[SandyB]

 A  Vote  an  indication  of  the right  attitude .??   .. it  forms  part  of  it ..  its  a  sign  that  one at least  holds  some  hope  in  their  soul .. that  they  have  not  had  their  spirit  totally  crushed  .. that they  have  woken  out  of  their  apathy  and  are  deciding  to  do something ...  I  would  not  like to  be in  the  shoes  of the  average  zimbabwean .. every  day  most of your  physical  and  mental  energy   taken  up  by  the  scrabble  to  survive .. methinks  you  analysing   this  subject  too much  here ..  one  can  look at  it  from  so  many  angles  and  actually  get  nowhere ..

[georg ruf jr.]

What happens in Z is just an eg on how to go about things Sandy.
I've experiaced so many times when Germans vote, that they do not vote because of their belief or anything of the kind. They vote because their partner does the same, or just do the opocite??? of what they believe in ect Then if you have a party getting for eg 40%, but only 66% of the population goes voting ---> This party actualy only gets 30% of the population. So many things have to be seen...

[SandyB]

Oh dear  you  getting  troubled  by  this  one ..  yes  voting  is  indeed  a  not  entirely  perfect  system  but  its  the  closest  at  present .. yes  if people  dont  take  their  vote  seriously or  do  not  go  to  vote  then yes  it  does  skew  things  the  wrong  way ...   as you  mention  60 %  becomes  30 %  etc
I  am  a firm  believer in  having  a  good  opposition   to  ruling party  by  numbers ..    it  is  necessary  to  avoid  what  happened  previously ..  one or  two  people  against  many  in  the private  club of  pariament ..  so  when  it  comes  to  voting  I  will  do so  strategically .. looking  for  the  strongest  bet  as opposition  (  might not   be entirely  to  my  satisfaction  but it satisfies  the  need  for  opposition )   or  if i see  that  an alliance  will  be formed  then  I  will   be  at liberty to  vote  for the  party that  meets  requirements  of   my  heart  and  strategy..
I  remember  My  Mom  and  Stepfather   ,,  a  few  years  ago  when  the  western  cape  was  the  " rebel "  province  and  belonged  to  the  official opposition  alliance .. They  were both  staunch  ANC  supporters   but  were so  happy  to  see  this  strong opposition   .. to  them it represented a  good sign  of  democracy ...
Also years  ago  the  one  very  conservative  Afrikaner  party  disliked  the  Nats so  much  that  they  rather  voted  for  the  official  opposition  which  was the PFP  then   even  though  it  went  against their beliefs ..
Remember  another  thing  ..  the  old  story of  , your  father  was  a  blacksmith  so  therefore  you  became one  or  your  father voted  for  labour party  therefore  you  did it  automatically   without  question  is  on  its  way  out ..  the new  generations  have  CHOICE  more  so  than  their  predecessors   and  will hopefully  excecise  this  option of  choice wisely ..   
That is  unless  you  have  devised  some   other  perfect  system ?  If  not  then  just try  to  do  your best    within  the  imperfect  perfection  we  have ..

[Richard Opperman]

Well said there Sandy - be yourself when voting - not because my father voted for x therefore I vote for x.

[Richard Opperman]

Looks like this story is now going the l...o..n...g way round?

[georg ruf jr.]

I'd like to come back to the point about discussing things with my colleagues.
The problem is not the different opinions. Different opinions make discussions rich. It's using the same words and meaning something different. That's why I refered to trained people, who are sopposed to be speaking the same language.
If a christian and a buhdist talk about god, then they mean god. Even if the have different opinions in what god is. That may be enriching. But what happens if a buhdist talks about praising god, and the christian thinks his praising a golden idol.
So it's a matter of listen properly and finding out about what people are meaning when they say something. And it's a matter of finding out if what I say is true and being ready to change my opinion when it's not.
So all of this is a process. A very difficult process. Something everybody goes through every day in his life. And it's realy hard.
So how can we expect changes on a national basis  happening by vote. It's only a signmal. And everybody involved still has so much to learn in his own process.
I hope this doesn't sound arrogant. I'm not trying to say I know how Africas problems can be solved. I'm just trying to understand why it's so hard for any of us to get to the ideals we have.
I know that's a big jump now. But I'm running out of time and I wanted to get back to where we came from.
Looking foward to reading more.

[SandyB]

Firstly  I try  not  to  over intellectualise  what  is  happening  your  brain  might explode   ..   I  take  the  view that  there are  things  that  are    directly  within your   sphere  of control  and  things  that  are not  directly  within your   sphere of  control ...   Those  that  are  within  my control I  do  my  utmost  to  exert influence  and  shape .. those   that  are  not directly  I  also  do  whatever  is  within  my  capability , and  try to  learn  and  accept  the  outcome   because  no  matter  what  my  input  there  are   the  variables as  you  have  mentioned ..    the  Human  factor  .. there  is  no perfect  system  and  we  ahve  to  try learn  to live  with  that .. down  to  people  saying  the  same  words  but meaning  something  different ...   actually  I  find  that  I  run out  of  thoughts on  this  one   and  end  it  with   saying " learn  to  accept  the imperfect  perfection  that  we  are"

[Carl Wrbka]

Why Mugabe was banned from Survivor Zimbabwe...

[georg ruf jr.]

No! Who says he has to go. No, no!

[Richard Opperman]

On a lighter note!

There is a new Barbi doll available on the market, called ZimBabi - comes with no clothes,money or food.
Has a cow called "Moogabe"  bling1 

[Dalene Steenkamp (Coetzee)]

What's the diffirence between Mugabe and a loosing rugby team?

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Mugabe can organize a win.                    

[georg ruf jr.]

 bling1

[Alfred Boehme]

Did'nt Mugabe win the re-count by one vote? :emot78: :36_2_24: