Ship Wreck

[Adriaan Van Rooyen]

Not saying anything,hear no evil speak no evil ve vill get shot and shot again iv ve publish vone more voto me i love life, so Mikey go ahead, make my day.Hell Alexander tell those guys you have family here,tell them we are madmen  bling1 ,we sure would like to meet you ,in person,or what do i say Mike, shut up Dalene,not a yap from you . Mike wasn't it possible that a river exists in the vicinity of the wreck and that they actually wanted to get fresh water but ran into trouble.Any chance of going back a couple of hundred years to find out ? .       

[Dalene Steenkamp (Coetzee)]

Just like that  -  "shut up"!  Aint gonna happen...  Adriaan, sorreeee  (For sure we would like to meet Alexandre in person  -  his main purpose to do his job and then on assignment to wring your neck about those photos.)

Could be that the actual river mouth was not where it is today.  One thing that I am glad of, is that I was not one of the people on the ship.  To land on the westcoast of Namibia..... 

Am I glad to see that the archeologists of Namdeb have realized that they are out of their "levels" with this project and have asked for help from the right people.  I just wonder why they have only asked for it now?

[Chris Macpherson]

hi dalene,river mouth could have been further north then as time waits for noone.

look geolists and other muthas did nothing anyway cept line their own pockets. so we find these things out for ourselves.

[Adriaan Van Rooyen]

Nah,nobody is gonna wring my neck,lady, bling1.Alexandre would love to see this town,before it falls apart....just joking.Sorry about the photos,but i gather you love the thrills and spills. .As for the river,i think that maybe it could have been running a wee bit north awhile back..... Gonna watch the movie now...

[Michael Alexander]

It's a known fact amongst those in the know, that the Orange River mouth actually was positioned at Uubvlei, but this was not 500 years back, but rather thousands of years back....

[Chris Macpherson]

and on whose authority due you get this information,caseys' sportsmans,or where, maybe even koos.

[SandyB]

Strangely enough I saw that comment when reading today but was busy .. Come on BMIB the shipwreck is in such common knowledge  not some  state  secret ... maybe their misplaced comment should also  highlighted  in the media ?? The  wreck may " belong" to namibia  but it is of worldwide historical interest ../? the mind boggles at the foot in  mouth illness suffered by many politicians ....actually  got  a  good  one  on  them .. will paste it  in ..

People never lie  so  much 
as
After a  Hunt ,
During  a  War
or
Before  an  Election .

... Otto von Bismarck ...

[Adriaan Van Rooyen]

No Chris,he is becoming a historian now.... you know what i say.. bling1

[Alexandre]

Did ever any of them ever return to Portugal? And how long will it take before the experts confirm, yes this ship was the "abcd", what was this story that there was royalty aboard?

Np royalty, but there were on board, without doubt, some people of lesser nobility extraction. I spent all day, today, at the archives - I think we can hold the ship "Bom Jesus", captained by Dom Francisco de Noronha, and lost with all hands in 1533, as a good suspect for your mistery wreck...

[Michael Alexander]

Way to GO Alexandre' ..... a name out of the mists....... This is getting interesting, do the Archives give the names of the crew? How many etc.....?

[pbrandt]

Survivors from such an early wreck did not have much chance of survival. They probably knew that they did not have much of a chance to get a lift back to Portugal if they walked south - and that their only chance would be going north hoping to make contact with Portuguese west african traders. But this was so early and I do not think the Portuguese were active in Angola in the mid 1500's - Alexandre? . Thus, if they did not know about the river and went south they would have walked north, right into disaster.

Again we have no idea if anybody surviced and how many. We know from South African Portuguese shipwrecks that up to 450 people survived such a wreck. With the loss of the Sao Joao in 1552 (Port Edward - KwaZulu Natal), 450 people started walking north to Mozambique - again their only hope of contact with traders - of the 450 only approx 28 arrived in Southern Mozambique - the rest were 'lost' along the way due to starvation, fights with locals, illness and some even chose to/had to remain behind, being taken up in local tribes.

A study of shipwreck survivor camps is another very interesting part of Archaeology - often survivors remained behind for a few days up to a few months before moving on. In South Africa we have the documented case of the Sao Goncalo survivors who stayed in Plettenberg Bay for 9 months before departing again in boats built during their stay. Fascinating stuff.  This survivor camp has been found and excavated many years ago. If anybody is interested - let me know - In South Africa we have at least 12 early Portuguese shipwrecks that we have been studying for many years - many of the wreck sites are known but still needs to be properly researched/excavated - unfortunately most of the wreck sites are in very rough seas and difficult to work in areas - we need some of the 'diamond millions' so our Archaeologists can explore these sites better.

With the ORM wreck - many possibilities - lets hope a proper archaeological excavation will be able to tell us more about the ship and its people. Archaeologists with modern technology can do wonders with small pieces of wood, ballast stones, pollen found on the wreck, and as Filipe Castro from INA wrote te me - even the mud in the ballast space can keep the modern archaeologist happy for many months unraveling the story behind the story.

Cheers  PAUL   maritimeafrica@yahoo.co.uk

[Michael Alexander]

Can anyone confirm that the wreck site has once again been flooded with seawater? Anyone on the mine email me..?

@ Paul Thanks for the history....was'nt that Plettenberg wreck, the Formosa?  I remember hearing about that when I was their on holiday, a bar was called the Formosa Inn, and on enquiring about the origin of the name, I heard the story.... fact?

[SandyB]

Fascinating  stuff  ...  keep it  coming !!

[Michael Alexander]

We have confirmation, that yes, the wreck site is now being flooded.... in a controlled manner..... the good Dr.Nolie was present taking the last photographs.... I wonder where to next......

[pbrandt]

The Plettenberg Bay wreck was called the Sao Goncalo and was wrecked in 1630 in the Bay. She was anchored there for some time because of bad leaking and then a storm came up and she was wrecked. The Portuguese at some time called the bay - Bahia Formosa.

Attached a pic of the first page of an article on the ship and survivor site that was found. Paul