THINK BEFORE YOU INVEST

[SandyB]

Here is a lemon  to pass  around ..I would  not  normally  do  this  , but  yes    by  their  actions  and  delaying tactics  Liberty  Life  have  now  taken  me  too  far .. I  am  waiting  10 months down the line   from  death  for  Payout  on  annuity policies  taken  out  by   John my  Life  partner ..  the  specific  contract  with Liberty  Life  states  me  as  sole  nominated  beneficiary ..  the  trustees  blocked   processing  in  the hope of  reaching  the  12  month   limit  which  would  absolve them  from  any  liability .. this I  only  discovered  after  going  to  the  offices and refusing to  move  untill  I  got  answers ...  One  of their  senior  guys  took  the matter up  for  me  ..and things  seemed to  start moving again   .. they have  now ground to a halt  and  even  he is not answering  my  mails  (  methinks  he  has  hit  the  brick  wall again  and  embarressed and  ducking .. normal  human  reaction )   after  all this  time  hatching  the  policy  claim papers  .. they seem  to  need  some  more  documents  from   the  previous  pension  fund  of  John  which  was   dissolved  many years  ago ?? Huh !!  I  have  sent  these  pictures  to  their  CEO this  morning  as  well .. have  been  driving around this  weekend  with these  signs on my  car ..  the calls are  coming  in  and the  mails arive .. I  tell my  story ..  the  thank  goodness  is  I  am  financially  self  sufficient   otherwise I would  have been in  the  crap  by  now ..  PASS  IT  ON .. AND  BE  AWARE  WHO  YOU  INVEST WITH  . AND  MAKE  SURE  YOU  HAVE  EVERY I DOTTED  AND EVERY T CROSSED ...

[georgswa (Georg Ruf) (RIP)]

Insurances are only interested in signing up, thats the first ripp off

The next ripp off when it comes to paying, they will do anything not to pay

Go and  the bastards

[SandyB]

 Hi  Georg ..  Just pass  it on to whoever  you can via  email  .. they  are  part  of  an international  group  .. the  more  lemons  passed  and  the further  the  radius  the  better ..   at the  end of  the road .. i  do  this  not  only  for  myself  but for  others  who  could be  equally affected ..

[Sheena]

 
Well done Sandy.  Put the photo in your local paper as well.  This should attract their attention.

[Michael Alexander]

       Way to go Sandy..... is'nt there a consumer complaints thing in the Newspapers?

[Skinny]

Hi Sandy You should post something on Hullopeter.com they love this kind of thing and also send a letter to the insurance OMBUDMAN, he will also jump on their case and there is also Wendy Knowler, the consumer lady at the Cape Times, get hold of her. I have sent them and email telling them they stink. I also have two policies with them. Just ges to show they want your money but don'y want to pay. Go to their offices like I suggested in a PM to you. Their office in the center of CT and create all hell. Take your flask etc, ahould be good. and give them Good luck Kaye

[SandyB]

Did  that  all  .. as  said  things got moving  and then  stopped .. anyhow outcome at moment is  somebody from  head office has taken over ..  payment  of the  one policy  is  in the tube .. that I have no problem with .. second one  got jammed in their  system  again .. anyhow their CEO  has got my eMAIL  with the  pics of my car .. so  if  he's wise he will do a full investigation ..  and send  me letter of apology ...
On the  subject of the  newspapers .. I did  phone   a  month or so ago .. they dont  handle  insurance  in  argus  action  etc .. too  complicated they  say .. contacted the  ombudsman ,, they refered me to  pensions adjudicator ..  and  they to  have a long  drawn out procedure ..  Like said  went  to CT office in canal walk   would  not  leave till i  got  answers .. the  poor  guy who  took it  over  has  done  his  best .. but  too hit a  brick  wall   last week .. now  head office  is handling it ..  I  have  peace  .. i  have  thrown the lemon back ( compliments to Kaye ) .... 

[pam spackman]

Hi Sandy, we had our Insurance with LIBERTY LIFE from years ago, it MATURED last year October

and we are still battling to get it PAID OUT to the U.K!!!!!!! All sorts of excuses.....but we are NOT

giving up!!!!

[Bertie Horak]

Don't mention Liberty Life to me, it makes me  !

Had to go for operation 2 years ago.  I've paid Liberty for 12 years, and never claimed.  Before the op, they assured me they would pay.  After op - they paid the surgeon, but the hospital was paid only R72.00, yes, that's all.  The rest of the hospital bill and the anesthetist I had to pay myself. I went straight to head office - didn't collect at "start" and got this idiot on the phone who told me "Oh sir, then you didn't read our fine print"!!!!!!  That was enough.  I canceled my membership immediately, and told them I'll put up a 2m x 2m sign in my practice the next day to warn people to stay away from Liberty. I would also from then on refuse to see any Liberty patients, and will also publish a nice article where people can see it.

- They paid my bills, and also paid me back a percentage of the 12 years I paid them loyally for hiding facts from me.  One big plus on my side, I had the conversation with them on tape, and they put their foot in it repeatedly during our conversation. 
Good luck to you all, hope you get help soon.

[SandyB]

Hah !  me  not  so alone  on this  one .. what  puzzles the  .... out of me is   dont  they  learn ?? they  must  be  getting  crap  thrown at them  every  day   if  this is  the  pattern from a small  sampling of  people  .. when our  customers  complain  too much  we  immediately  set about  correcting  situation and   putting  preventative  measures in  place .. to  try ensure  a  pattern  of  repetition  does  not happen .............  seems  they  just  wade  their  way  throught he  shyt  every day and  accept it as the norm ..
Dont get me wrong .. I  believe in   life  insurance  .. I  believe  its a  valuable thing to have , as its a form of  compulsory saving ..  if  one  starts  young and for  a small  premium  a  month  put into  annuities  ra's  or  just  plain life cover  endowments  ..  when and  if  the  shyt hits the  fan  it  can  if  it has  life  cover as well  pay out  handsomely ..   better than if it  was   just  invested ..  unless of  course you  a  whizzkid on the  stock exchange ..   or got into  property  loong  time  ago  and  invested  wisely there   etc ..
Johns   company  provident  fund  paid  out  within  2  1/2  months .. that  should  be  the norm ..  problem is  increasing  laxity  and  could not  care  attitude  seems to  be  on the  increase  nowadays .. people  hide  behind each  other  in their  mediocrity ..  especially  in  big  organistaions ..

[georgswa (Georg Ruf) (RIP)]

The general thinkin on matters like that is:

You want something from them, they think go ahead and claim, go to court and lawyers, wait until the final moment to test you how far you will go.

We have a TV show called WISO in the ZDF, you can state your case and if lucky they will broadcast it and even visit the firm or Insurance for a statement

I have a running case, get letters every month and threats, last letter said, final warning before going to court

I wrote back: Thanks, thats exactly what i want, Court ASAP as i have asked you months ago, we look forward to win that case LOL..... No reply yet until the next letter ????? No more answers from me unless from court.
Thats the Game, taking chances

My Case was in that TV show, they said " Dont Pay " !!!!!!

The firm consists of an empty office, just a post Box, the owner is in Britain

I even made a web site to warn others.

Thats how it looks, i dit send them the link and said TAKE ME TO COURT FOR THAT

http://hometown.aol.de/_ht_a/ageorgruf/genealogie.html

[Dalene Steenkamp (Coetzee)]

My 2c worth to Sandy's dilemma.

Most brokers direct you towards a Liberty Life policy, because Liberty makes use of a slacked underwritring procedure when it comes to new applications.  Also, the brokers get the best commission structure from this.  Due to the policy issue time (very quickly, because of the slacked underwriting), the broker gets his commission real fast.

No other company will link medicals under the LOA structure with the medical records of Liberty, due to above mentioned underwriting structure. This is where the problems arise in a claim situation  -  only then do they start digging into detailed medical history of the client, then comes up with reasons not to pay due to "supposed" withholding of information at inception of the policy.  When taking out a risk type policy i.e. with life cover or severe illness cover, one always has to go for blood tests and maybe sometimes even go to the doctor for a full medical report, an ECG test etc etc.  Most people see this as a schlep.  I always tell my client that they should see it as a free medical checkup.   When full underwriting has been done and everything has been declared regarding past and present medical history, and your policy application gets accepted on this base, there should be no problem once a claim arises in future under that specific policy. 

Another thing  -  compare their illustrated projections for future maturity values.  In some instances much higher than most other companies   -  ask yourself how this can be?  A company with not half the asset values that even a normal commercial bank like Standard bank has, quotes at higher return figures than the big companies like Old Mutual and Sanlam. 

Still, like Sandy says  -  be carefull when choosing a financial advisor or broker and be make very sure about the underlying structures and small print within your policy, not matter with what company your policy is.  A very big concern for me still is, advisors and brokers who do not know the products or benefits they market or sell to clients.  With all the FAIS rules and regulations in place, there are still those "Hit and run" guys out there who do business with clients mainly for their own gain and not for the benefit of the client. 

[SandyB]

Agreed  Dalene .. I have policies  with OM that will be maturing in 3 years time .. they are doing damm well cos i took them out young .. our broker /agent at the time was a personal friend .. so he apart from growing his business with us  made sure it was also in our best reasonable interests .. The life cover part is the bonus if i shufffle off the mortal coil  before I turn 55 ..
The problem I have had with Liberty revolved around the fact  both policies were pensions  and that the trustess  were just too cowardly to make a decision  in my favour even though i was nominated as sole beneficiary  .. instead they ducked and stalled hoping for the 12 month period to pass .. even at one stage tried to pay it into the estate which would aslo absolve themselves from any claims in  the highly unlikely event of somebody coming forward as a benficiary ..
Old Mutual at least came forward and  asked for further proof of the Life partnership which although was upsetting I suppose was  a valid  concern .. once that was in place they  started to move ,, not as  fast as they should have but at least they were upfront ..
So the dilemma as Dalene  describes  I have is actually for me a life lesson ..  It has  in retrospect made me  strong , wiser and yes somebody who will pass on my experience to others ..
First bit of advice  to anyone in a life partnership .. irrespective of how good a track record of partnership  vis .. financial records , in our case joint bonds , joint municipal accounts .. Go out and  do the civil ceremony ..  as odious  as it may seem  to some  .. DO IT  !! strangely enough that   piece  of paper stamped by a magistrate that does not  know  you from a bar of  soap seems to do the trick  .. despite the  fact that  common law  marriage / relationship is  recognised by our  constitution ...  so thats the advice i pass on ....

[Dalene Steenkamp (Coetzee)]

I can just confirm again what Sandy says.

Review your will at least every 2 years.  Make sure about benificiary nominations  -  provide ID's where possible to submit with your benificiary appointment forms. 

When in a partner relationship with no marriage certificate (same or different sex partnerships apply to this)  - please make avidavids about your partnership and specifically mention wether there are dependants/children/financial dependants etc.  This will just make all the legal technicalities easier should death of one partner occur.

[Michele Alexander (Voden)]

Our pension fund (Spar) is with Old Mutual and on 30 January 2007 one of our employees was killed in a car accident, we are still waiting for them to pay out!