THINK BEFORE YOU INVEST

[Dalene Steenkamp (Coetzee)]

Michele, I sent you a PM in this regard.  Unfortunatley I am not linked to Old Mutual Namibia, so I cannot try to assist you from this side.

[Sheena]

Michelle,
Speak to Mercer Leeb.  He comes to Oranjemund on a regular basis.  You can get his contact details from his sister-in-law.  Annis Schlechter.

[Michele Alexander (Voden)]

Thanks for all the help and info - I spoke to our Old Mutual agent yesterday again and he was supposed to be faxing me through a letter yesterday explaining what was happening - still waiting of course!

[Dalene Steenkamp (Coetzee)]

I am going to say in the open what I have said to Michele in a private mail:

If your agent is not doing his/her work and giving you the service that you pay for (commission is included in your admin and contractual levy's that forms part of your premiums), then change agent.  Why pay someone that does not work for you.  Will you employ someone in your business who just appears on the payroll, but does nothing, or give salary to a domestic worker who never comes to work or even  -  pay a furniture account for furniture you did not buy?  NO,  I did not think so........   why then pay your financial advisor who does not do his job?

When you appoint an agent, directly spell out to them on what base you should be contacted (annually, every 6 months, quarterly  etc.).  Make sure your agent is readily availible to you, and that you get notified when this person is on leave or away from the office.  Get contact details of private secretaries etc.  No matter how small your premiums  -  you are a client and you are therefore entitled to justified service.

[Bertie Horak]

Well said, Dalene.  I must admit, my financial/insurance knowledge is limited, and I have therefor fallen into the trap of believing everything the agent tells me in the past and that he/she is giving me the best advice possible.  Then few months later, another agent tells me a different story, and so on, and so on.  If you have an agent who gives you the service you pay them for (like Dalene said), keep them, if not, get somebody else.  Dalene, I might ask you for advice in the near future - knowing you, at least I know I'll get honest and sound advice!

[Donald Duck]

How to pay people that p*ss you off :

[Diana Rudd (Boehme)]

This topic worry's be terribly, we have a few policies with Lib Life and have a great agent who has been most helpfull over the years. We have been payed out a policy that has matured with no problems. Now my worry is, G*d forbid Stephen should die,then what? Am I too going to have the same problems as Sandy?

[SandyB]

Diana .. in theory you should have no problems .. You  are married .. as below my words from earlier

Old Mutual at least came forward and  asked for further proof of the Life partnership which although was upsetting I suppose was  a valid  concern .. once that was in place they  started to move ,, not as  fast as they should have but at least they were upfront ..
So the dilemma as Dalene  describes  I have is actually for me a life lesson ..  It has  in retrospect made me  strong , wiser and yes somebody who will pass on my experience to others ..
First bit of advice  to anyone in a life partnership .. irrespective of how good a track record of partnership  vis .. financial records , in our case joint bonds , joint municipal accounts .. Go out and  do the civil ceremony ..  as odious  as it may seem  to some  .. DO IT  !! strangely enough that   piece  of paper stamped by a magistrate that does not  know  you from a bar of  soap seems to do the trick  .. despite the  fact that  common law  marriage / relationship is  recognised by our  constitution ...  so thats the advice i pass on ....

and  Dalenes words 

When in a partner relationship with no marriage certificate (same or different sex partnerships apply to this)  - please make avidavids about your partnership and specifically mention wether there are dependants/children/financial dependants etc.  This will just make all the legal technicalities easier should death of one partner occur.

again it comes down to the agent / broker .. they should also be asking questions and assting their clients to help prevent the crap i have ahd to endure .. as  Dalene has said  even she is now wiser to the machinations of trustees trying to avoid making decisions .. and will advise her clients in similar situations accordingly ..

for me this has done only many  things .. I'm now over the awful part of squabbling about what is rightly mine ,  even my car poster campaign although it satisfied the naughty / mischevious part of me  left  emotional exhaustion , that again I'm surprisingly in a day or so over .. so yes this experience too has a positiive side .. made me  stronger and more worldly wise .. ( we never too old to learn )  and  yes a person with a mission to go out and give advice to as many people i know in same relationship  situation .. tell them to do  whatever necessary and not  to rely upon the trust of a contract  that they took out in good faith ...
I have meeting with my Om broker tomorrow  to look at options for the compulsory part  of payout..( Liberty are not going to get my business after this episode )  and i will be asking the most pointed questions  to ensure all goes according to my wishes ...

[Skinny]

Sandy go to a traditional witch doctor, pay him a hundred bucks to back date a traditional marriage license and bobs your uncle. Bet you they will not quibble over that. LOL. Worked for a friends of mine who were in a similar kind of state. But their fight was against Sanlam( Boer mentality). They got their money quickly especially when they threatened to go to Nose Week (Martin Weltz) Try it, you have nothing to loose. Or phone his Secretary and say you are from SARS. promise you will get through first time, especially when you say it is regards his personal tax.
Reagrds and keep your chin up and do a Mrs Doubtfire, throw the lemons back harder than they throw them at you!!!! SKINNY

[SandyB]

Thanks  to you all  for all the support shown and advice .. My update is everything has been moving with lightning speed since my car poster campaign ..  I was flooded with calls from Liblife ... that was due to my flooding their email system with the pictures ( any  email address of any subsidiary as well ) evry hour on the hour that I  had no response on monday morning .. I now get daily  telephonic update from head office communications director ?? strange name .. but yes they communicating .. the first one which was in process has been paid out and now safely in my  personal investment account ... I went to my Old mutual advisor today to get best option for the pension preserver  2/3 that has to according to original contract  go to similar product .. i have no pains with that ..  only diffs is Liblife are not getting the business .. they have to hand the full 2/3 over to Old Mutual  ( opposition ) and have lost a potential new customer  and possibly quite a few others due to my campaign  resulting from their antics ..
As far as the  response to the  campaign went .. well i was surprised .. many emails from  strangers giving support .. asking  questions .. worried as they had policies  with  liblife .. i just gave them short sweet advice based on what Dalene has said  go  back to the broker / agent and ask more  questions on best and worst case scenarios ..  make them work for that commission if you have any doubts ..
And then the phonecalls .. me driving along .. phone rings ..  " is that you in  the blue Clio ? " .." yes "  ... "  I was driving behind you ,  or  I got this via email , please tell me the  story  , I have policies with LibLife  and am now  concerned "  ..... again I give brief outline of the story  and advise them to contact broker /agent .. and ask the pointed questions ..... there were a few shaky cases I heard .. amazing how some people just sell policies without warning the client of possible pitfalls in the carrying out of their contracted  wish or instruction  by the insurer when the  paw paw hits the fan ..
Final outcome of this whole thing .. the talking and responding has been very cleansing , has released  some  more of the pain of loss ..  and yes i repeat again I am  wiser but  not mistrustful , thats a negative energy  to carry with one ..
I threw a lemon  but in the vein of  my personal viewpoint on lemons .. this is my personal view on them ..

" When life throws a lemon at you ,  first thing you do is hold it and study it carefully .. ask these questions .."
1. Did i have a personal responsibility  in the receiving of this lemon ? If you find that you did , then suck on it a bit  to use its bitterness as a life lesson and then pass on the wisdom of what you ahve learnt .
2. If  you  did not have a pesonal responsibity in the lemon  and the sender was vindictive or unfair  then yes throw it back with all your might ..
3. Sometimes  no amount of lemon throwing is going to make a difference , then  you  ask life to pass the and  the  salt ..  in essence walk away from the situation ..

there is nothing hard and fast in the above and its very flexible .. sometimes you will find you will do a bit of all 3 things  ( dont know if i did but it feels like that ) .. most important is  to do first hold it and  study  and  ask the questions .. otherwise you  end up hurting yourself at times ..

[Cheryl Quantrill (van Greunen)]

Isn't this the kind of complaint that should also be addressed to the insurance ombudsman as well - it stinks all over!!! All insurance schemes are shark schemes - they will always try to get the maximum for the minimum and will most definaely withold information that will predjudice in the long run.  Just like your bank manager, they are not your friends interested in your wellfare but rather out to see how much they can get out of you for as long as possible!!!!  The unfortunate part in the whole story is that you are screwed without them and screwed with them!!

[SandyB]

Cheryl .. sometimes not worth the bother going to long term  ombudsman  or pension fund adjudicator . it could drag things ut even longer .. i had done my initial enquiries and came to that conclusion .. My campaign worked .. and advice to anybody  .. when you meet adversity such as this .. then do the same a car poster campaign and then send pics to  the company .. the CEO's PA  and any subsidiaries .. even their rivals ..  It seems to work cos even getting it into the papers is difficult ..

[Bertie Horak]

@ Sandy - I'm glad things are looking up.  That's one bit of stress we dont need, hey!  Good luck, rooting for you!

[SandyB]

THE FINAL OUTCOME ..
Got a phone call from the " communications director " on monday morning .. turns out after doing a lot more digging on the case and the policies .. the last one was  not a " pension preserver ' but a provident .. Which means that I do not have to do the 1/3 -- 2/3 investment thing .. i get it all minus the taxmans slice .. that i can recover within a year of interest growth and savings on the bonds ..  Now Dalene  mentioned earlier in topic that they have slack underwriting procedures ..  seems  to  be very slack as they did not even really know what type of policy it was .. and i would ahve  been locked into the 1/3 - 2/3  if she had not done her homework ..
I got a lovely letter from the lady  today  giving me the full breakdown  including interest from Sept last year ..  and an apology for the inappropriate way in which the claim was handled  and the delays  which I accept in good grace ..  I hope they use it as a lesson in how not  to do things ..
In closing .. my car poster thing and the spread across the email plus social .. has revealed some real horror stories ..  I consider myself lucky .. I did not have  family trying to interfere .. I heard stories of where family have tried to sabotage everything .. all fine  while their child/ sibling was alive .. but the minute they shuffled off  all hell broke out for the one  left behind ..  that would have been a double blow , that although not unresolvable would ahve made my life hell .. so once again ..  make sure all the I's are dotted and the T's crossed .. and pass on my  experience to anyone you know who is in a partner realtionship .. 

[Michele Alexander (Voden)]