Ship Wreck

[Michael Alexander]

From todays Newsletter! The coins went where?

[Bertie Horak]

........and, POOF!..... 2000 golden coins...missing!

[Alexandre]

Alexandre' You once asked about the type of stones in the area, well I was scanning old mine photo's from about 1967...and came across this....looks similar don''t you think?

They do look similar... but those other rocks were more massive and more rounded, I think....

[Michael Alexander]

@Alexandre' no more news in the portuguese media about the wreck, does anyone on your side know whats happening with regard to the Spanish coming here?

[Alexandre]

Michael, wheels and cogs are moving behind the scenery - after all , the MIB are a transnational issue, if you get my drift. Fear not, we will have a solution for this issue sooner than later... :)

[Michael Alexander]

Mmmh!  Like you said before..... the coins are not the real treasure here...... the MIB's don't see that though....

[Alexandre]

the coins are not the real treasure here

"Pieces of eight! Pieces of eight!"

Long John Silver's parrot in Robert Louis Stevenson's "Treasure Island"

:)

[Dalene Steenkamp (Coetzee)]

Seems this treasure island is somewhere in Namibia then.....  they are counting more that eight here (wonder if they even know what it stands for?)  Anyways....  makes for a good conspiracy story.  Maybe we should ask Rhona to weave some of this into her book in some way...

[Rhona]

Good plan 99 - I'll see what I can do  :emot26:

[Alexandre]

Like Mike said, the gold is not that important (besides those coins being a very good indicator for chronology) - gold is pretty much stable. What does worry me is the survival of the remains of the hull. If the hull survives and is recordable, then Namibia and Oranjemund will have a steady flow of good press and scientific knowledge coming their way. If not, well then, it's just another treasure find...

[Michael Alexander]

... you know, we would have known more about the state of the wreck, if Dr.Nolie had been allowed to give his presentation to the Oranjemund community..... , that was until he was gagged by the government....., what harm could it have done? If anything it would have prevented a lot of false statements being created.......  all we know is that the wreck is now covered, under guard and being kept dry.......

[Alexandre]

Well, you don't want that wreck to get dry! You want it as moist as possible.

[Bev Coates (Now Walker)]

GOSH what have i missed.........what shipwreck.....someone email me and tell me about it or something...........dont know what its about but you do have to be careful with copyrights when your copying anything........theyve just taken all our music system out at work saying we were braking the law as they had no licence to broadcast the music.BBBOOOOOOo...................sorry im still a bit spasmodic on here at the moment......but too much ro read for me to write anything myself.....will i ever catch up .......feel like an outsider now ive missed sooooooo much :emot78:

[Alexandre]

@Alexandre' no more news in the portuguese media about the wreck, does anyone on your side know whats happening with regard to the Spanish coming here?

Here's Portugal's position regarding the "sovereign immunity" of state and warships within the context of the UNESCO International Convention for the Protection of Underwater Cultural Heritage - the result of several meetings held between delegates from the National Center for Nautical and Underwater Archaeology (Portuguese Ministry of Culture), the Cabinet for International Cultural Projects (also Ministry of Culture), the Portuguese Navy's General Directory, the General Directory for Multilateral Agreements and the Services Directory for International Economical Organizations (Portuguese Foreign Office) and approved in April 2000:

1) Notwithstanding the fact that UNCLOS does not contain any specific mention regarding the sovereign immunity of shipwrecked warships and state owned ships Portugal considers that this consecrated principle – according to which the flag state has sovereign rights over the said remains, wherever they are located - should be universally respected. Also, Portugal - notwithstanding the fact that it will strongly respect other state's owned ships or warships, located at the bottom of the sea or in the sea bottom of it's continental shelf or, more generally, in any of the areas under it's maritime jurisdiction – will not claim this principle from other States at any title, although the vast majority of it's historical heritage is spread worldwide, in the sea bottom of every continent. As a matter of fact, Portugal does not consider this ethical, political and cultural principle as fundamental in the preservation of it's heritage; nor to be this the most important or the most urgent issue from the scientific, political or cultural point of view within the Convention's context. Portugal considers that best way to protect, study and preserve his nautical heritage, instead of claiming for himself his historic and cultural remains located at the bottom of the sea or in the sea bottom of any continental shelf – remains that are historically and culturally shared with the countries that control those areas and whose claim and affirmation are negotiated with any of those countries, based upon the principles and the ethics underlined in the project of this Convention – is :

a) to claim, above all, that those remains will be protected, researched, studied and valorized in the exclusive behalf of Science, Culture and Mankind (which is inherent to the primordial respect of the interests of the site, flag or cultural origin countries), in accordance with the Sofia Charter principles. By "site country" we mean the country that holds control or possession of the sea or marine bottoms where those remains are located; by "flag country" we mean the country whose nationality is historically and archaeologically identified and by "cultural origin country" we mean the country tentatively identified, being such identification based nevertheless on strong archaeological evidence

b)to reiterate it's entire availability to cooperate with any country in whose waters and sea bottoms lie remains of common historical and cultural heritage.

2) These are the principles that inspire Portugal's resolution to act in this domain and that explain it's position vis-à-vis the said Convention. Principles consubstantiated by the fact that the archaeology and the valorization of underwater cultural heritage have begun in Portugal with the cases of the Océan and the San Pedro de Alcantara, shipwrecked in the Portuguese territorial sea in 1759 and 1786; and that Portugal has always cooperated unselfishly when the remains of Portuguese ships were intervened with good and sound archaeological practices (that is, according to the principles that were later put forward by the Sofia Charter) in other countries territorial sea, as has happened in the case of the remains of the Santissimo Sacramento galleon (1666), in Brazil, or the case of the Santo de António de Tana (1697), in Kenya.

3) Portugal considers that, independently of the said questioning, the universality principle must inspire the application of the instrument that constitutes the present Convention, contemplating all underwater cultural heritage, whatever be it's nature (sites with nautical remains or others or, if these are ships, whatever its "class" may be – men of war, "civilian", etc.).by expressively stating only the ethical and methodological assumptions of contemporaneous archaeology (expressed in the Sofia Charter) and those requiring for a necessary and desirable cooperation between countries, leaving as a side issue – regulated by bi or multilateral cooperation agreements – all questions pertaining only to the authorities involved, such as the issue regarding "Sovereign Immunity" over men of war and State ships sunk and which might be considered to have hypothetical or confirmed archaeological potential."

[Michael Alexander]

Thanks for that Alexandre' , I woke up this morning realizing that I have not seen our resident Archaeologist , Dr. Dieter Nolie in quite awhile, he seems to have disappeared of the face of the Sperrgebiedt,None of my normal sources from the mine have anything new to report on the wreck, the government has given no further statements since April.....

I hope that this is not a case of , well we got the gold, bugger the rest!