NORMAL PEACE LOVING CITIZENS ,, PASSIVITY .. HOW RELEVANT ..??

[SandyB]

NOT  SUPPORTING " HATE SPEECH " BUT YES TODAY I GOT THIS ONE .. READ  IT..  MANY INTERESTING POINTS .. HOW  RELEVANT  ?? ,,  HOW   MUCH IN THE REALITY OF WHATS HAS HAPPENED IN HISTORY  AND WHAT WE SEE UNFOLDING IN FRONT OF  US  IN THE PRESENT  ..??  I SEE LOTS OF VALIDITY  AND  RELEVANCE  TO SO MANY OF THE SCENARIOS ..   YOU  AS INDIVIDUALS  BE  THE JUDGE ...  I  DELETED THE  PASS ON  BIT ... IT   JUST  DOES NOT  AGREE WITH ME , I MAKE MY OWN JUDGEMENT CALL ON THE CONTENT ,, AND GIVE BLESSING AND SUPPORT TO THE PEACE LOVING MAJORITY , MAY WE KEEP OUR EYES OPEN ...

German View of Islam
    This is by far the best explanation of the Muslim terrorist situation I
have ever read. His references to past history are accurate and clear. Not
long, easy to understand, and well worth the read. The author of this email
is said to be Dr. Emanuel Tanya, a well-known and well-respected
psychiatrist.   
  A German's View on Islam   
  A man, whose family was German aristocracy prior to World War II , owned a
number of large industries and estates. When asked how many German people
were true Nazis , the answer he gave can guide our attitude toward
fanaticism. 'Very few people were true Nazis,' he said, 'but many enjoyed
the return of German pride, and many more were too busy to care. I was one
of those who just thought the Nazis were a bunch of fools. So, the majority
just sat back and let it all happen. Then, before we knew it, they owned us,
and we had lost control, and the end of the world had come. My family lost
everything. I ended up in a concentration camp and the Allies destroyed my
factories.'   
We are told again and again by 'experts' and 'talking heads' that Islam is
the religion of peace and that the vast majority of Muslims just want to
live in peace. Although this unqualified assertion may be true, it is
entirely irrelevant. It is meaningless fluff, meant to make us feel better,
and meant to somehow diminish the specter of fanatics rampaging across the
globe in the name of Islam.   
The fact is that the fanatics rule Islam at this moment in history. It is
the fanatics who march. It is the fanatics who wage any one of 50 shooting
wars worldwide. It is the fanatics who systematically slaughter Christian or
tribal groups throughout Africa and are gradually taking over the entire
continent in an Islamic wave. It is the fanatics who bomb, behead, murder,
or honor-kill. It is the fanatics who take over mosque after mosque. It is
the fanatics who zealously spread the stoning and hanging of rape victims
and homosexuals. It is the fanatics who teach their young to kill and to
become suicide bombers .   
  The hard, quantifiable fact is that the peaceful majority, the ' silent
majority ,' is cowed and extraneous.   
Communist Russia was comprised of Russians who just wanted to live in peace,
yet the Russian Communists were responsible for the murder of about 20
million people. The peaceful majority were irrelevant. China's huge
population was peaceful as well, but Chinese Communists managed to kill a
staggering 70 million people.   
The average Japanese individual prior to World War II was not a warmongering
sadist. Yet, Japan murdered and slaughtered its way across South East Asia
in an orgy of killing that included the systematic murder of 12 million
Chinese civilians; most killed by sword, shovel, and bayonet.   
And who can forget Rwanda , which collapsed into butchery. Could it not be
said that the majority of Rwandans were 'peace loving'?   
History lessons are often incredibly simple and blunt, yet for all our
powers of reason, we often miss the most basic and uncomplicated of points:
Peace-loving Muslims have been made irrelevant by their silence.
Peace-loving Muslims will become our enemy if they don't speak up, because
like my friend from Germany, they will awaken one day and find that the
fanatics own them, and the end of their world will have begun. Peace-loving
Germans, Japanese, Chinese, Russians, Rwandans, Serbs , Afghans , Iraqis,
Palestinians, Somalis, Nigerians, Algerians , and many others have died
because the peaceful majority did not speak up until it was too late. As for
us who watch it all unfold, we must pay attention to the only group that
counts--the fanatics who threaten our way of life.   




     

[Bob Molloy]

Hi Sandy,
              I've lived a long time on this earth and by now I think I know a classic snow job when I see one. This one presses all our emotional buttons without a single reference or source to which we can refer to check its provenance.
I'd be grateful if you would post your source for this one.
Regards,
Bob.

[SandyB]

Hi Bob ... methinks the universe was talking to me ,,  the minute  I  was posting it   sort of knew you would be there in a flash   .... like  said  forget the snow job ... take the  salient  points ,,   I believe  in  dont comb  all under the same  comb  ,, yet people dumbing out  when they can see whats in the serpents egg  and  developing in front of them ..   history   has  a  way of repeating itself ...  we  see it  all the time .. for me  . I  post and ask for  opinion  a sort of challenge ...  most  do not climb on this bus  excepting .. well you know ...  .. I doubt the validity of the message yet take into account the salient points ... we all have opinion ... we in SA   see one thing .. . somebody  in UK will see another  thing ...  somebody in NZ  will see another thing  ...  so it goes on ...  I been meaning to PM  you   at some or other time , just got to gather my thoughts , but yes  do read between the lines ...  there is relevance to history  and current ...  and and  again  I say  , normal peace loving  folk ..  do not dumb  out ...

[Bob Molloy]

Hi Sandy,
            I'm still waiting for you to supply a source for your material. Meantime, I've selected a quote from your post and added a comment.
"The specter (sic) of fanatics rampaging across the globe in the name of Islam."  Hardly, I've never seen or personally experienced one, neither I'm sure are you nor anyone reading this website which would be a good chunk of the globe.
We could multiply that concept worldwide and find only isolated incidents such as 9/11, the short spate of airliner highjackings of the Sixties and Seventies, the Bali, London and Spanish bombings. Put those up against the following proclaimed terrorism organisations (just click on each link for a fuller picture). All are American Christian but for one which is American Jewish. They better fit the concept of rampage, having indeed been rampaging up and down the US, some for nigh on 50 years, have killed thousands and are still doing so, then ask yourself who doing the terrorising:
•   2.1 Animal Liberation Front
•   2.2 Army of God
•   2.3 Black Liberation Army
•   2.4 Jewish Defense League
•   2.5 Ku Klux Klan
•   2.6 Symbionese Liberation Army
•   2.7 Weathermen
•  3 Notable attacks associated with domestic terrorism
•   3.1 Bombing of Los Angeles Times building
•   3.2 Wall Street bombing
•   3.3 Unabomber attacks
•   3.4 Oklahoma City bombing
•   3.5 Centennial Olympic Park bombing
•   3.6 2001 anthrax attacks
•   3.7 Holocaust Memorial Museum shooting
Omigod, watch out, the Americans are coming. Oh, almost forgot, they are already here. They own you body and soul, and your country too, via the good offices of globalism and the corporate press. They also fill the internet with the kind of misinformation someone sent you. Your German aristocrat informant would have to be at least a hundred years old to have any prewar adult experience of what happened in Germany in the Thirties. He also demonstrably knows little about the causes of WW2 judging from his simplistic explanation of Nazi power-grabbing. 
I could go on but I don't want to bore everybody to death here. Just a last word about suicide bombers: think of the picture the corporate press has given you of the typical Muslim fanatic who straps bombs around his chest and blows up innocent people, then take the following quiz.

 
  http://lawrenceofcyberia.blogs.com/news/2006/12/the_seventy_two.html (via shareaholic.com)

Queries or comment welcomed.
Regards,
Bob.

[SandyB]

Bob ,, I chose  Lola  and Norma  as the most likely  suicide bombers  and was correct  acording to that   link ... ...     take  note  me not  pro  or con ... every nation and persuasion  has its  warts  and  bad parts , thats my take ... again i go back to the salient points   , not combing all or  anyone  all under the same  comb   etc ..  part  of the whole  thing ... the source  is a many times passed on message  , hence my deleting the pass it  on bit ( that pees me off second to none ) ...   I was however correct  on   the universe thing   and knowing you would be there  cannons blazing ...    I  remain with my strong stance of   peaceful folk dumbing out ...   again I repeat not many folk seem to have an opinion  or   can comment ...  currently doing a bit of research  and then will  post   a response ...............  till then

[Bob Molloy]

Hi Sandy,
              To help with your research, some more information on suicide bombers:

http://www.businessweek.com/bwdaily/dnflash/jul2005/nf2005076_7420_db056.htm (via shareaholic.com)

Regards,
Bob.

[Michael Alexander]

No doubt, that in some darkened obscure room under the pentagon, there is some Gov official now scouring this forum, due to the words suicide bomber appearing one their screens, wonder what the chances are he might have an Oranjemund connection.....

   

[toonfandangl]

Nothing to fear but fear itself!!...................the human race has had this problem a long long time....................Michael!!.... thanks for that comment about the Yanks.......keep getting these weired sensations that there is some one behind me            

[Bob Molloy]

Perhaps the Pentagon doesn't read the right sources. Here's a piece for them to get their teeth into.

Regards,
Bob.


WHAT MAKES SUICIDE BOMBERS TICK? (Doubtless no pun intended).

Research by Professor Robert Pape of the University of Chicago, published in 2005 in Dying to Win provides the first data-based analysis of suicide bombers. He found most westerners have misleading views of suicide bombers and how to combat them.

PREVAILING MISCONCEPTIONS.  There's a connection between September 11 and the war in Iraq, radical Islamic fundamentalists are behind all of the suicide bombings in Iraq and they're spurring insurgencies throughout the Islamic Crescent.
Reality: US government studies of intelligence failures and Pape's analysis indicate there's no evidence that any of this is true.

About the only point Pape agrees with is that the bombers want to drive the U.S. out of the region. But he argues that American policies to combat the terrorists are wrong-headed. "The presumed connection between suicide terrorism and Islamic fundamentalism is misleading and may be encouraging domestic and foreign policies likely to worsen America's situation and to harm many Muslims needlessly," he writes. Here's a summary of his analysis, which is based on the 315 suicide terrorist attacks from 1980 until recently.
Sri Lanka's Tamil Tigers, a Marxist-Leninist Hindu group opposed to religion, committed the largest number of suicide attacks, 76. The Kurdish PKK, which used the tactic 14 times, is headed by a secular Marxist-Leninist, Abdulah Ocalan. The Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine, another Marxist-Leninist group, and the al-Aqsa Brigade, which has ties to the socialist Fatah movement, account for a third of the attacks against Israel. Communist and socialist groups account for 75% of the attacks in Lebanon. Islamic fundamentalists, he concludes, were associated with about only half of the attacks from 1980 to 2003. And such fundamentalist Islamic countries as Iran and Sudan aren't producing any suicide bombers.

CLEARING THE PENINSULA.  Pape argues that the common denominator among the bombers in 95% of the cases is that they're nationalist insurgents with a secular, strategic goal: ousting the military forces of democratic countries from land the insurgents believe is theirs. The suicide attackers, who account for about 5% of all such incidents but about 75% of all fatalities, believe their lands and way of life are threatened. The religions of the occupier and the insurgents invariably are different, Pape notes, but he contends that difference is merely a useful recruiting tool and isn't at the root of the animosity.

Al Qaeda fits this pattern. Osama bin Laden's opposition to the House of Saud stemmed from its decision to allow U.S. troops on Saudi soil. Bin Laden's goal is not simply to kick the U.S. out of Saudi Arabia, a country that's a Western construct, but rather from the Arabian Peninsula, which arguably stretches as far north as Iraq and includes Kuwait, Bahrain, and other countries in the region where the U.S. has troops.

Almost every suicide attack is aimed at a democracy, from the Tamil Tigers targeting Sri Lanka to Kashmir strikes against India. That's because the insurgents view democracies as vulnerable to this pressure. In fact, governments have made concessions in 7 of 13 completed campaigns (5 are ongoing). Not bad odds.     

FEEDING THE ENEMY.  The mere presence of foreign troops is the instigation for the attacks, so lengthy stays to secure democracy actually make attacks more probable and help boost recruitment. Pape notes that arrests of al Qaeda and other insurgent leaders are rising but the tally that counts is the number of attacks and they're rising, too. That suggests al Qaeda is growing stronger, not weaker.

Yet there are some encouraging signs. Pape points to the sharp decline in attacks in Israel when it left southern Lebanon. The insurgents need public support to survive and if the goal of getting the enemy out is achieved support for such tactics evaporates.

Pape argument is based on factual data. The information shows that while Washington was operating on the assumption that the suicide terrorists were all poor the opposite was true. In fact of young Islamic radicals involved in such cases 42% had post-secondary educations and they were part of concerted campaigns with coherent goals.

FACT AND FANCY.  The Kurds, for example, didn't use suicide tactics against Iraq but did use them against Turkey. Fanatics would have attacked both, but rational strategists recognized that the chance of success was better in a democracy than in an autocratic state. What's more, Fatah, a socialist group, used the tactic before Hamas, a more religious-oriented organization, was even created, says Pape.

MORAL: if all western nations got out of the Middle East and stopped supporting forcibly imposed regimes, terrorist attacks worldwide would reduce dramatically, economies which produced goods instead of weapons would boom, employment would rise, security needs at airports diminish and governments could concentrate on ensuring their people have housing, education, employment, three squares a day and domestic security to enjoy it.

[Michael Alexander]

In conclusion..... if you give a human the right education from a young age..... he will follow....

[toonfandangl]

Sorry!!!! don't believe that we get out of other peoples lands that it will solve the problems...... 6 billion people and half of them are trying to brain the other half,........... from the time we were conscious we have been bashing one an other ...2001: A Space Odyssey I recon if there is intelligent life in this universe... well it ain't here..........mind that's not including all the people on this site........Phew!!..... anyway an incident happened today where I stopped the car because I was turning left and a learner driver was holding up the traffic on the other side of the intersection, so instead of waiting the drivers behind her were pulling around her subsequently blocking my exit. The cretin 'Oops' Young gentleman behind me became frustrated gave me the finger and pulled up along side me (had to be restrained from getting out) I waited till the ranting had stopped, then asked him if he was employed..................told him there was a job were 74 virgins were involved... he took off with the address of the local mosque.

Look on the lighter side Sandy!! Bob! in Australia there is a saying "The Price of Liberty is Eternal Vigilance".......................... ...........

[SandyB]

Frank  ,, this is a tricky path  for  me ...  it seems the  pro / con  very active  and curently  I  dont have mental   energy ... i still state   the salient points  are being missed . vis the  passive dumbing out  ,  I  have yet to  pull together  a  very good  response ... and has  Bob  has   said before to  my responses  ..   they  are   heartfelt .. thats my truth ...   I will do him  the honour  of  doing  it in a PM  and the  he has the choice of  publishing it  on site .. I will always endeavour not  to ambush  somebody o the site  ( been there and learnt my lesson )   so watch this  space ....  one  wrong  does not  justify the  next wrong ... da  da  da //// watch this space ...

[Diana Rudd (Boehme)]

Oh Lord will read this another time can't think now....Shiraz brain.   

[SandyB]

On reflection  you right Frank ...  the price of Liberty ....   no good  munching on this  one ... 

[Michael Alexander]

Oh Lord will read this another time can't think now....Shiraz brain.   

Oh! Deary me.... You see, that is exactly how these religious wars start...... Did you just use the almighty's name in a non religious environment? Time it start Jihad against the La Table Viewer Clan....... To Arms Brethren......

(There goes that guy in the pentagon, searching the site now, all because I mentioned Jihad..."