Usama Bin Laden

[toonfandangl]

Usama Bin Laden

Usama Bin Laden, the Saudi Arabian–born leader of Al Qaeda is widely known as the most dangerous terrorist on the planet, claiming to be responsible for the Sept. 11 attacks, he often praises the hijackers for completing their mission has been killed.

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/slideshow/world/2010/06/05/usama-bin-laden/#ixzz1LAFcDS00

[Patricia Lotte]

Great news! But unfortunately that doesn't mean the end of terrorism. Pity he got killed though. I would have preferred to see him rot in jail ...!

[Bob Molloy]

Osama Bin Laden "claiming to be responsible for the Sept 11 attacks"? Do you have a source for that, Frank?

I certainly can't find one, though I did find a suspect video, long ago lambasted as a CIA fake by every responsible journo, which purports to show him doing so.

What we do have on record is:

a) "On September 20, 2001," according to the Guardian, "the Taliban offered to hand Osama bin Laden to a neutral Islamic country for trial if the US presented them with evidence that he was responsible for the attacks on New York and Washington. The US rejected the offer."

b) When asked why there is no mention of 9/11 on the FBI's web page, Rex Tomb, the FBI's Chief of Investigative Publicity, said, "The reason why 9/11 is not mentioned on Usama Bin Laden's Most Wanted page is because the FBI has no hard evidence connecting Bin Laden to 9/11."

c)  Bin Laden, in a September 28, 2001 interview  with the Pakistani newspaper Ummat, said:
    I have already said that I am not involved in the 11 September attacks in the United States. As a Muslim, I try my best to avoid telling a lie. I had no knowledge of these attacks, nor do I consider the killing of innocent women, children and other humans as an appreciable act. Islam strictly forbids causing harm to innocent women, children and other people. Such a practice is forbidden even in the course of a battle.

d)   On March 29, 2006, on The Tony Snow Show, Vice President Dick Cheney stated: "We've never made the case, or argued the case, that somehow Osama Bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming."

More importantly, why was Bin Laden killed (plus his wife and any other living thing that could find in that compound possibly including the family cat) and not brought taken prisoner?
Obvious: that would have meant a trial and a lot of uncomfortable evidence that would have implicated the CIA and previous presidents in a list of dirty deeds, among others funding Bin Laden, setting up Al Qaeda, funding Hassam Hussein and arranging the Iran/Iraq war to mention but a few.
His death avoided all that. It also gave an embattled president a useful get out of jail free card for the upcoming election. 

Incidentally, Frank, Fox News is not a news site. It is a far right Republican public relations station specialising in propaganda and hate speech. A good antidote is to watch more John Stewart on the Daily Show.

And to wrap it all up: what Americans are celebrating is nothing less than death by assassination, guilt without trial and total abrogation of a constitution that a once proud nation claimed to uphold as an example to the world. 

This is not a time to celebrate, it is a time for sadness. Of America, the ancient biblical lament is well worth repeating: "Tell it not in Gath, bruit it not abroad in the streets of Askelon, for how are the mighty fallen.

[Michael Alexander]

"    "Allah knows it did not cross our minds to attack the towers but after the situation became unbearable and we witnessed the injustice and tyranny of the American-Israeli alliance against our people in Palestine and Lebanon, I thought about it. And the events that affected me directly were that of 1982 and the events that followed – when America allowed the Israelis to invade Lebanon, helped by the U.S. Sixth Fleet. As I watched the destroyed towers in Lebanon, it occurred to me punish the unjust the same way (and) to destroy towers in America so it could taste some of what we are tasting and to stop killing our children and women."

    – Osama bin Laden, 2004[103]"

LINK: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osama_bin_Laden

and

"n two other tapes aired by Al Jazeera in 2006, Osama bin Laden announces,

    I am the one in charge of the nineteen brothers ... I was responsible for entrusting the nineteen brothers ... with the raids [5 minute audiotape broadcast May 23, 2006],[120]

and is seen with Ramzi bin al-Shibh, as well as two of the 9/11 hijackers, Hamza al-Ghamdi and Wail al-Shehri, as they make preparations for the attacks (videotape broadcast September 7, 2006).[121]"

[toonfandangl]

Thanks Bob for your response to the post did I have a source that 'Osama bin Laden' was responsible for 9/11 and the answer is no I don't. The only person that can answer that is believed to have been killed by American military force's as I was not there when this happened then I can only go on the information that the news services release to the public.
The information we receive whether by TV Internet radio or news print has been well sanitized before we ever get to see it and Fox News was a bad example to use,and to watch more of John Stewart on the Daily Show I thought that everyone did.

[Bob Molloy]

Thanks Mike,
                       The provenance for that statement is a video released in 2004 ostensibly from Bin Laden. I accept it at face value but it remains strange that the FBI still hasn't retracted its position.

[Mike Stenson (RIP)]

There was no way the Americans could let  Usama Bin Laden live if they knew where he was.... just was not a option.

[Michael Alexander]

Can you imagine the media circus if he was brought to trial?

[Bob Molloy]

You nailed it, Mike. That's why he was executed and his body dumped at sea. There was no way in which the present US regime (though there were better times in that sad country's history) would have allowed Bin Laden his day in court. 

All that aside, there is room for much debate here. I invite everybody to jump in.

Here's  my tuppence worth: this discussion reminds me of the how to boil a frog theory: turn up the heat slowly enough and over a long enough period of time and the frog won't notice until it's boiled alive.

My point is that we in the West have been so dumbed down over the years in terms of basic education, so exposed to media bias presenting news as entertainment and so accustomed to entertainment (TV, videos, films) presented as information that we can't see the wood for the trees.

The issue here is not that a (purportedly) arch-criminal has been killed while resisting arrest but that virtually all the laws underpinning our much vaunted civilisation have been ignored, pushed aside as irrelevant, and the real crime lauded in the streets by an ignorant population.   
Worse still was the sight of western world leaders, sycophants all, lining up to congratulate the perpetrators.

If the defence is that this was war and fought under the stringency of battle then where was the declaration of war, when did Congress give assent to the suspension of civil law as required by the constitution, and what happened to the Geneva Convention covering all aspects of capture and treatment of prisoners of war, and also the requirement where possible to retrieve bodies of the slain and bury them in marked graves?
Where too was  America's declaration of war against Pakistan so that they could enter  that country to kill and capture its residents?

The reality is that if you sup with the Devil you need a long spoon.   

The quotation below illustrates my point. It is from Robert Bolt's "A Man for All Seasons".  Sir Thomas More, the 16th-century Chancellor of England, refused to endorse King Henry VIII's wish to divorce his aging wife Catherine of Aragon, who could not bear him a son, so that he could marry Anne Boleyn, the sister of his former mistress. Henry VIII had More killed for his refusal.

Alice: While you talk, he's gone!

More: And go he should, if he was the Devil himself, until he broke the law!

Roper: So now you'd give the Devil benefit of law!

More: Yes. What would you do? Cut a great road through the law to get after the Devil?

Roper: I'd cut down every law in England to do that!

More: Oh? And when the last law was down, and the Devil turned round on you - where would you hide, Roper, the laws all being flat? This country's planted thick with laws from coast to coast - man's laws, not God's - and if you cut them down - and you're just the man to do it - d'you really think you could stand upright in the winds that would blow then? Yes, I'd give the Devil benefit of law, for my own safety's sake.




The quotation is from Robert Bolt's "A Man for All Seasons".  Sir Thomas More, the 16th-century Chancellor of England, refused to endorse King Henry VIII's wish to divorce his aging wife Catherine of Aragon, who could not bear him a son, so that he could marry Anne Boleyn, the sister of his former mistress. Henry VIII had him killed for his refusal.

[Bob Molloy]

At last, an American personality who has connected the dots.

http://www.corbettreport.com/the-last-word-on-osama-bin-laden/ (via shareaholic.com)

[Robert Bruce]

It's good to have the perspectives presented to us by Corbett. They perhaps bring balance to an otherewise well orchestrated media offensive and the official cover-ups to protect official collusions and involvements by themselves (the USA) and maybe other western governments with the Bin Ladens stretching way back.

Interestingly, on the day the killing of Bin Laden was broadcast by the news media, I didn't get the feeling that at last we have closure on him. Perhaps the cynic in me about the prowess of the USA's covert operational abilities sounded too pat. Too easy. Too slick like the Hollywood movies would have us believe it to be. Way too hooohah for my liking. And way too reliant on the Pakistanis abilities to turn a blind eye to what is ostensibly an invasion.  Are we to accept/assume that Pakistan has nuclear power but lacks radar facilities to pick up and track unidentified aircraft flying in from Afghanistan? Who knows? I don't.

And to have Pakistan declare they knew nothing about Bin Laden living in their country? Then to hear the official USA announcement that the Pakistan government knew nothing about the impending raid across their borders by a foreign force...?

Imagine what the USA would do if Pakistan sent a covert unit to infiltrate the USA to take out an individual?

In my opinion there is too much speculation, too much smoke and way too many contradictions have eminated from the US authorities. All this leads me to think that some of the resulting conspiracy theories may contain more than just a tiny element of truth about them. As they say "where there's smoke there's fire".

Could Bin laden be alive and kicking and snuggly back among the sandunes of the Arabian Peninsula? Perhaps.

[toonfandangl]

[quote author=Bob Molloy link=topic=4779.msg84250#msg84250 date=1304548898

The quotation is from Robert Bolt's "A Man for All Seasons".  Sir Thomas More, the 16th-century Chancellor of England, refused to endorse King Henry VIII's wish to divorce his aging wife Catherine of Aragon, who could not bear him a son, so that he could marry Anne Boleyn, the sister of his former mistress. Henry VIII had him killed for his refusal.
[/quote]


last year was in Philadelphia, went up to New York and did get to meet Steve Colbert at the live taping of his show the "Colbert report"  he likes to feed off "The Daily Show" hosted by Jon Steward great entertainment and you can easily Google these guys and get to see their material some good some bad some indifferent, but what the hell its all entertainment. Now religion WOW! watch out for that one the quote from Robert Bolt's "A Man for All Seasons (Protestants v Catholics)" Sir Thomas More, the 16th-century Chancellor of England, they did not **** around there he refused to endorse King Henry VIII's wish to divorce his aging wife Catherine of Aragon, who could not bear him a son, so that he could marry Anne Boleyn, the sister of his former mistress. Henry VIII had him killed for his refusal yeah!...... right on (wheres that bloody quill)....... having your head chopped off is a kind of entertainment if you are in the audience.




Here is another guy that speaks his mind, you might not like what he says but that's democracy for you................

http://www.therightscoop.com/pat-condell-justice-for-obama/

[Bob Molloy]

Pat Condell has a string of about 40 such videos on U Tube, each spewing the same right-wing, pro-Zionist diatribe of disinformation.
However, quite right Frank, this is democracy so let a thousand flowers bloom, let a thousand schools of thought contend. Then perhaps we might reach some consensus and who knows, even a little clarity.
The problem is that Condell's approach is inimical to democracy. His equating of "human rights and legality" with "blah, blah, blah" would undermine everything we in the West stand for, a heritage of freedom that goes back almost 800 years to the signing of the Magna Carta. No wonder he and his ilk applauded when the American Congress removed the right to Habeus Corpus so that they could grab people off the street and throw them in Guantanemo, there to rot for years without trial.
His engaging, slight humourous manner barely masks his fascism, And his attribution of 9/11 to Osama goes against even the FBI finding that the jury is still out on that one. In fact, as more evidence turns up, it is beginning to look more than more like a Mossad black flag operation than anything else.

[toonfandangl]

BOB! have a nice day...........................................





      Israel's Mossad: Black Ops and False Flags

      www.sweetliberty.org/issues/israel/blackops.html

[Bob Molloy]

Hi Frank,
          Interesting website but beware of taking it too literally. Much of the information is correct but there are a few incidents for which the proof is as yet unclear.
Remember that the Hasbara, the Israeli disinformation campaign, is also in the business of creating websites so anti-Israeli and making such nutcase claims that they are laughed off by most people, thus making other more sober websites less acceptable.
It is based on the old charge of "anti-Semitism", a word which pushes most people's buttons and feared by many. If something can be written off as anti-Semitic then by implication those who debate it are anti-Semitic and should be ignored or even targeted. Few people want to be tarred with that brush and thus feel it is safer to leave the topic alone
Hey presto, a win for Zionism which can then carry on its programme of land-grabbing and ethnic cleansing without the world looking over its shoulder.
That said, there are genuine, dyed in the wool, all out redneck fascist anti-Semitic types who also cloud the picture. Much of their material is so obviously nutcase that it can be discarded. It's just a matter of soberly sorting out the information based on the Roman tag of "Cui bono" (who benefits).
If the incident leads to benefit for Israel then it's worth a deeper look. Hence the ongoing debate about the provenance of 9/11 for which the official version is looking more and more doubtful.
Regards,
Bob.