Ship Wreck

[Michael Alexander]

Gee! It's a good thing I planned to buy two copies....

[Michael Alexander]

As per the posting in shipwreck relevant "and I believe for some strange reason, Not the COmpany (Namdeb), but rather the government does not want anyone giving out photo's or discussing this newsworthy topic.... I cannot see what the reason for this would be. Please feel free to air your views in the Shipwreck TOpic."

[Alexandre]

Well.... I just saw myself quoted on the Windhoek Observer but I was not contacted by them. I guessed they must have come to this forum and kind of copy/pasted me...

[Alexandre]

Worst of all, they did not bother to correct my pidgin english... all the misspels and repeated words - I do not go back to see what have I wrote on a forum - are there...  :36_2_35:

[georgswa (Georg Ruf) (RIP)]

@ Alexandre

Thats what they do if no info comes out.........

You can write anything there and they will copy it

Some papers at least contacted us per mail trying to find out what is fact and what is joke

Take Care

Obrigado Alexendre para sua entrada em nosso forum

Georg de Germany

[Michael Alexander]

It's quite impressive how many newspapers are lurking around in here.... I got an email from a Portuguese Reporter today..... Nothing that I can really say I guess..... I ain't digging for ships...... They should speak to Nolie.... if he is allowed to speak that is...... It still bothers me..that the Presentation that was to be held on Wednesday Night got cancelled...... perhaps bigger men in black are lurking about.....

[Rhona]

Mike A - when Mike S returns the copy of the book 'Glamour of Prospecting' that you are going to lend him - can I have a loan of it then, please...............Mike S - please don't dog ear the book or damage it's spine; I'll send you a book mark before you start reading........ 

[Michael Alexander]

I just had the honour to eventually have a chat with Dr. Dieter Nolie. What a humble man and indeed

a true servant of Namibian Archaeology.This passionate man has spent the last twenty two years of

his life exploring all possible historical sites of the Spergebiedt. I listened to all he had to

tell me and understand fully his reasons for restraints on what information is to be released on

the wreck.

He gave a really good explanation to me as to why the wreck needs to be covered over again. In a

nutshell , preservation until the technology is available. This is a man who believes, and quite

rightly so, that this wreck belongs to the Nation and people  of Namibia.

We look forward to the day that he will be able to give a presentation to us all on this incredible

find.

 

[SandyB]

Balanced rational information .. all we  need ..and  got it in a nutshell  ... we await the final  reports when all important work done ..

[Alexandre]

From the leading Portuguese newspaper, yesterday.

"Shipwreck study: Portugal will cooperate with Namibia

Publico, Saturday, 17th May 2008, by Sérgio C. Andrade

The Portuguese Government, through it's Institute for the Management of Architectural and Archaeological Heritage (IGESPAR), communicated yesterday to the team of the South African archaeologist Dieter Noli their willingness to cooperate in the research of the remains of a [shipwrecked] nau, thought to date from the Discovery period, found in the Namibian sea, on the 1st of April.

The way this cooperation will unfold is still to be seen, but it should occur by the sending of a technical [Portuguese] team to Namibia, whose Government has already assumed the impetus of the research, and which has formally contacted both the Portuguese and the Spanish Governments.

The shipwreck appears to contain more than 2.000 coins (some in gold, already identified as Portuguese and Spanish, from the 15th and 16th centuries) besides cannons, other bronze artifacts, navigational tools and even elephant tusks, all this reinforcing the theory that this was "a Portuguese East Indiaman sunk carvel", has said again Francisco Alves, head of the Nautical and Underwater Archaeology Division of IGESPAR. "The research that will be done on this shipwreck can be of an utmost historical importance", said Francisco Alves, highlighting the fact that this must be the oldest ship ever to found in the South Atlantic."

[Michael Alexander]

Thanks Alexandre'...quick question...Were the Portuguese and Spanish nations of that period allies...why were both Nation's coins in use on the same boat?

[Alexandre]

Thanks Alexandre'...quick question...Were the Portuguese and Spanish nations of that period allies...why were both Nation's coins in use on the same boat?

Hi Michael, quick answer. There were two ways for that to happen:

1) gold is gold. with an economy based on gold and silver, it does not matter whose face and shield is it on the coin - all that matters is the gold content in it (the higher the better, that's why the Portuguese coins were so famous) and the sheer weight of it. it's like today's euro coins -here in Portugal we give and receive euro coins from anywhere in Europe, France, Spain, Finland - since they are all current, they get around. Also remember - if this ship was lost after 1525, it was at a time that we were hardly getting any African gold, since the caravans were already being re-routed norteast from Nigeria and Congo. Now, on the opposite side, Europe was getting flooded by gold from the Americas and guess who was bringing it? The Spanish...

2) the Portuguese King would financially support part of the India bound fleet costs by granting private merchants a license to deal/buy pepper or other exotic goods -this was the "partidas" system. These privates would then go to their assigned ship, with that letter in hand, and would deliver it to the ship's purveyors together with the amount of money that that private merchant was sending to buy pepper. In India, the purveyor would use those coins to buy the pepper - now the beauty of this was that not only the King would get a fair profit from the difference in prices (usually pepper "bought" in Lisbon in antecipation would be more expensive than the one actually bought in India) but he would tax the royal fifth from that very pepper (if it ever arrived in Lisbon). Anyhow, anyone could have delivered those Spanish coins as part of a "Partida".

[Dalene Steenkamp (Coetzee)]

No more news on the wreck?

Mike -  lend your ears to the annonomous informants so we can get fresh info on the topic, please!

[Michael Alexander]

@Alexandre' ... thanks for that...once again most interesting stuff....

@Dalene, this subject has gone very cold at the moment, I believe everyone is waiting tor the Portuguese delegation to arrive, no doubt the politicians here in namibia will make a big spectacle of the whole event.....

I know that there are a group of Portuguese journalists planning a trip out here also..one of them contacted me, but I passed there email onto the local Portuguese people living here.... can't get to grips with the language,,,,,,

[Alexandre]

Don´t those journalists speak english? ;)

I am annexing a 1591 chart of your coast, can you identify the actual geography? It might help pinpoint that wreck.